ICP test - too high, can be connected with possible overdosing of some KZ product?

[DusanII]

Dear All,

I am here after almost half of the year with some questions 😊

I have been running KZ in my new bigger tank for about half a year, and all looks good, corals seem happy and growing. Colours are nice.

Tank is LPS dominant with few fish only.

As the tank is bigger than I post it last time here are the sizes/technic update:

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter – 650l
2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter – 500 l
3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique – Clarysea reef matt, Skimmer Nyos Quantum, Automatic Zeovit filtr
4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.) - no
5. Are you using Ozone - no
6. Are you using UV - no
7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume) – Skimmer Nyos Quantum 160 for aqua till 1000l
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels PO4 – 0,03, NO3 - 6
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels Cal: 420, Alk – 7,9, Mg - 1280
10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.) – beside above technic just lots of live stones, and just a bit of macro algae (more for pods than filtration 😊)
11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.) – 4 radions gen 6 – two 15 blue and two pro
12. What corals do you keep – majority LPS – scoly, trachy, cynarine, euphylias, acans, , some soft – lots of zoas, and easy SPS – Montipora, Milka, Seriotopora
13. Tissue color (light or dark) – tissue color seems to me colored – not white not dark, full colored
14. How long has the tank been running – for half a year I ran 250 l and then move all to this new tank 500l – this new tank is running cca 6 monhts
15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system – I like the system
16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.) – no, just kalkwasser for Kh keeping
17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.) – many, about year old mainly, cca 60 – 80 kg
18. Any present problems – high result of ICP for some trace elements
19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.), still bit braun long haired algae but only under the surface on back side of tank and bit slime braun algae on glass – need to be cleaned every other day by magnet down
20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.) - Hanna
21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.) see below
22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.) Salinity 1,025, temp 25C
23. Which salt brand do you use – KZ salt

I change about 6-7% of the water once in 3 weeks. I use RODI water. (not always 0,00 – I am using it till it is about 8 then I change mixbed.

I did now the first time ICP test and some parameters are way far (and some lower)– some can be influenced maybe by supplying of KZ products. Will you be so kind and let me know how to change the dozing in case it can have a connection?

Strontium (8-12 mg norm) – I have 5 mg (low)
Iodin (50-80 norm) – I have 16 (low)
Zinc (2-5 norm) – I have 14 (high)
Fe (O-1 norm) – I have 6 (high)
Barium (5-20 norm) – I have above 100

Many thanks for your kind recommendation

Dušan

[jacky]

My thought is that the name "trace elements", high or low, doesn't affect the coral much. I know there are many trace elements, but as far as I know, iodine, it can also change the appearance of corals and color blue corals, and too many trace elements can also cause coral tissue to become dark. I also always use good quality salt+water and change the water 10% weekly to replenish/refresh the elements in a balanced way like this. ICP can be used to reference/check certain hazard components, but is not an absolute basis for a beautiful coral reef.

Medication plan can add Zeo CoralSnow, I think it's good.

The kalkwasser will bind PO4 from the water column and this compound will accumulate at the sand and rocks for example. Under several conditions the PO4 can be leached back in the water column, also algae for example can pick up the PO4 directly from the substrate. It can be typical for such systems to have no detectable PO4 in the water column which several kind of algae grow very well.

Kalkwasser does not have a direct impact to the system or its components so its more a general advise.

[Bugger]

Cut back on the b balance and iron.
Zeovit offers a strontium product.
IS coral vital a fauna product?

[DusanII]

Dear Jacky, many thanks for quick and detail explaining! I will do the regular water exchange more often for sure.

Hi Bugger - many thanks also to you the Coral Vital - it is KZ Coral Vitalizer product. By cut back - you mean dose less? half?

many thanks Dušan

[jacky]

Sounds great, refreshes/replenishes elements in a balanced way, siphons away as much sediment as you can while changing the water, CoralSnow added to the dosing program, BioMate is also a good option. Potassium is also an important element, get a potassium test kit and it should stay at 380~g. For me, I think the nutrient level should be kept at zero, which is better. The coral tissue in the picture does look darker/darker. The lighting part is also recommended to balance the spectrum as it is naturally, which is very good.

kalkwasser is not recommended for higher purity/supplements without other elements

Iodine it's great fuel if you have an algae problem. Personally I would try to put iodine supplements and food7 on hold for a while.

[G.Alexander]

As long as your corals are not showing any kind of negative response I would personally not do much. You can dose a iodine supplement from time to time if blue coloration is getting to light or if corals like A.millepora have less polyp expansion. Iodine is not very solid in saltwater so I would not count much on the ICP test results.

Strontium can be dosed but I never did and I have never seen any advantage dosing this element additional.

The elevated iron and zinc levels are something which might be more problematic over the time. How do you prepare your RO water and have you cross check the result of your TDS meter with another accurate instrument already ? Additional I would recommend you to run a purest filter resin as the last stage of your RO unit replacing it regular.

Another source for such elements are pumps or a screw in the water or any kind of metal have direct contact to the water, also remove your algae magnet if you do not use it from the water.

G.Alexander

[jacky]

Thanks G. My insight is always small，i hope i didn't screw it up

[DusanII]

Dear Jacky, Alexander, many thanks for your kind support.

I have a few questions:

To Jacky 😊:

Jacky wrote: “The coral tissue in the picture does look darker/darker” what exactly it means, please? I have found it several times somewhere, but as I am not a native speaker – does dark mean “black” or deep, fully coloured? And please, what mean darker/darker? Is this good? Dark = good, White = wrong?

Many thanks

To Alexander:

For Rodi water – I will change cartridges – I guess all are about a year old, so maybe it is not enough effective. I already have KZ purest resin, but the cartridges are old.

1, dosing the Iodin – will you increase the dosing, for example, three times a week instead of 2 times?

2, KZ Kh Plus instead of the Kalkwasser – I would like to exchange to KZ Kh Plus, but I did not find how much one ml of KZ KH plus increase exactly Kh in the tank.

There is only 1 ml is the max for 25 gallons. (cca 100l)

I did several tries, but to be honest, even with maximum dosing – the increase was only 0,1, maybe 0,2 – measured by the Hanna tester.

Do you know how much 1ml of Kh plus should increase the Kh?

I fear testing it too much as I have quite a stable Kh, and I want to avoid creating big ups and downs.

Many thanks for your support

d.

[Bugger]

Hi Next time you do icp choose the ati kit. It will test source ro water as well as the tank water. You should have changed your filters long time ago and it is possible your membrane is damaged at this point as well.

[jacky]

Sorry for my poor explanation. I mean, the coral look doesn't look so light.

Light = good/polyp expansion/more elements used by coral/color more prominent/nutrient poor good.

Dark = bad / polyps not expanding / more elements not utilized by corals / color brown / nutrition.

I know that iron can affect the appearance of corals, the green color, and the algae problem, and the appearance of corals will be closed, a layer of brown, but since I don't know where it should fall, I have not noticed this problem, plus my experience Not enough, so I'm sorry. In the same way, the same is true for zinc, strontium and barium. I don't understand these elements. Thanks also G. Now I understand.

[NZ-Nick]

Evening.

Can you post pic of this string algae you mentioned.

Ever since ICP test came into reefing.
there has always been some interesting results.

I generally used them as a guide ( if tank looks good and growing then result can be error)


- one that always comes up is Barium.
never really pin down over the year of where it’s come from.
speculation of zeo stone with a few old Zeohead
But others never using zeo product have higher levers, salt, filler in salt, carbons and water source. Additives in carbon filters maybe ??

would be interesting if some could pin down source

[G.Alexander]

Hello Dušan, thank you for the additional details.

Lets keep dosing iodine @ 1 drop / 100 liters 2 x weekly. Bascially you can also try to increase it to 3 x weekly but I do not expect any postive effect from it but you can give it a try.

I have not found information about the KH Plus supplement from korallenzucht, they seem not to have published it. Usually their maximum recommendation is the quantity which does not cause any issues so to be 100% save I would use 50% of this recommendatoin dosing a KH test before and after about one hour to see which effect it does have to get a feeling for it.. This might be a good alternative:

https://www.korallen-zucht.de/en/Sal...owder-1kg.html

Make sure to increase the KH not to quick.

G.Alexander

[NZ-Nick]

Kh Or sodium bicarbonate are all of a muchniess
different manufacturers mix at slight different levels.

This is Redsea
which is 100grams per 1000ml solution (1kg mixed 10 liter RODI water)

AF was 80 grams per1000ml

[DusanII]

Sorry for my poor explanation. I mean, the coral look doesn't look so light.

Light = good/polyp expansion/more elements used by coral/color more prominent/nutrient poor good.

Dark = bad / polyps not expanding / more elements not utilized by corals / color brown / nutrition.

I know that iron can affect the appearance of corals, the green color, and the algae problem, and the appearance of corals will be closed, a layer of brown, but since I don't know where it should fall, I have not noticed this problem, plus my experience Not enough, so I'm sorry. In the same way, the same is true for zinc, strontium and barium. I don't understand these elements. Thanks also G. Now I understand.

many thanks Jacky now it is clear. :-) problem is on my side as non-native speaker...

[DusanII]

Evening.

Can you post pic of this string algae you mentioned.

Ever since ICP test came into reefing.
there has always been some interesting results.

I generally used them as a guide ( if tank looks good and growing then result can be error)


- one that always comes up is Barium.
never really pin down over the year of where it’s come from.
speculation of zeo stone with a few old Zeohead
But others never using zeo product have higher levers, salt, filler in salt, carbons and water source. Additives in carbon filters maybe ??

would be interesting if some could pin down source

Hi Nz-Nick,

Here are the pictures of the algae - they are only just under the surface of the back side so no perfect photos. and there is a slight brown film on the front glass growing - but nothing dramatic - every other day I just get it down by scaper.