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Starting RIght: New to Zeo, Prefer Auto-Dosing

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  • Starting RIght: New to Zeo, Prefer Auto-Dosing

    Hello, I am considering going full zeo and have some questions as I do my research.
    1. Due to my schedule, I prefer autodosing if possible. I understand that dosers may fail and that is a concern, yet certain dosers like the Kamoer offer wifi operations and suggest: Dosing Times: 24 times/day -once/7 days, Fluid Volume: 1ml - 1000ml, Accuracy: <+/-0.5%. <https://www.coralvue.com/kamoer-f4-pro-wifi-doser>
    • Am I being foolish to attempt auto dosing zeo product due to potential failure?
    • Would Dilution be necessary? If so, how to Dilute?
    • Are certain Zeo Products better for auto dosing vs others that are better for manual dosing?
    2. I have prepared an extrapolated product dosing schedule and notes that correlate to a 300g net water volume and based upon KZ's published guide <See Below>, thoughts on this?
    3. I understand the zeolite will 'strip' trace elements and therefore may require supplementation. However, testing Sr, Boron, Iodides, Potassium, Manganese, etc. are not practical with hobby kits, I'd imagine ICP is a better path...How Often is practical for ICP Testing given (a) the time lag between sample/result (b) approx $60 per test cost. It seems irresponsible to dose trace elements without this measure?
    4. I would purchase a Vibe 4L Zeoreactor, I've read suggestions to keep the effluent on a controllable pump so as not to keep effluent 'constant' is this necessary? what if I just run it on a Manifold at 100-200gph
    5. Carbon is suggested by zeo to run passively as opposed to a reactor, why?

    Products I am 'attracted to': Xtra for Aminos, Coral Vitalizer + Coral Booster for polyp extension/color, Zeofood for feeding, Iodide + ZeoSpur2 for color, FWS for health, Coral Snow for cleanliness.

    Products I am not sure about: B-Balance in conjunction with Coral Snow? Coral Snow has very high dosage rate (4ml/100L) this is alot of product! Is this to be used when problems arise or permanently? Coral Snow is recommended in conjunction with B-Bal, Zeobak, BioMate...all three or just one product along with Coral Snow?

    So my tank is doing well, yet I am concerned that I cannot get Po4 down. I used to use biopellets and that worked but i stopped due to the problems with excessive biofilm polution.
    GFO doesnt seem to reduce Phosphates for me. My source water is very good RODI, i have a 1000 gph commercial membrane, 20" Sediment, 2 Carbon, DI and change all as needed.

    Help me get started the right way! THanks, Greg

    ZEOVIT DOSAGE GUIDE at 300 Gallons

    Calculation Key
    1 drop = .05mL 100L =11.35X "START" = New ZEOvit Stones = 2 week Cycle
    "1-2x/week" = 5.25X/wk 200L=5.68X
    1000L=1.135X
    NET WATER VOLUME 300g
    1135L

    BASE PRODUCT Mfg. Dosage Recommendation Dosage at NWV Efficient Dosage Combinations Hints Dosage at NWV/Day Usage/Year

    ZEOvit Stones 1L/400L 2.8L Permanent use, replace @ 2 months 20.8L

    ZEObak per 100L: 1 drop/day at START then 1-2x/wk 11.35 drops / day for 2 weeks at START; then 8.5 drops /day Coral Snow Permanent Use, 9 month shelf, REFRIGERATE 0.5675 mL/day for 2 weeks at START; then 0.4256 mL/day 168mL

    ZEOstart 2mL/1000L daily at START; then1-2 mL/day 2.27mL/day at START, then 1.7025 mL/day Permanent Use 670mL

    Activated Carbon 1L/1000L/30 days 1.14 L Permanent Use, replace at 30 days 13.6 L

    Pohls Extra 0.5 - 1mL/100L/Daily 8.51 mL / Day If the coral colors are brighter, dose 1 mL, if they are darker then only 0.5mL 8.51 mL / Day 3,100 mL

    Coral Vitalizer 1 drop / 200L / 1-2x/week 8.5 drops / week Coral Booster Dose CV 15 min after Coral Booster when polyps extended. Optimal effects after 7-10 days. Corals need time, some need to learn to feed, if accustomed to feeding, heavy PE will occur even at Daylight .061mL/day 22.25 mL

    ZEOfood 1 drop/ 100L/week 11.35 drops / week 0.08107 mL / day 29.6 mL

    BioMate 1 drop / 100L / week 11.35 drops / week Coral Snow .0817 mL / day 30 mL

    Coral Snow 1 mL/100L with Bbal. Up to 25 mL/100L w ZeoBak/BioMate 28 mL / day B Balance, ZEObak, BioMate Mixe with B-Balance as facilitator. Promblems like slime algae/film, mix w/ZEOBak and/or BioMate 10,220 mL
    Coral Booster 0.5 mL / 100 L / day mixed w FWS 5.67 mL / day mix FWS Flatworm Stop 2071 mL

    Flatworm Stop 0.5 mL / 100 L / day mixed w CB 5.67 mL / day mix CB Coral Booster Dose for 3 months minimum 2071 mL

    ZeoSpur2 0.3 mL / 100 L / 10-14 days mixed with Iodide Complex at 3 drops/100L 3.4 mL / 10-14 days with 34 drops Iodide Complex Iodide Complex Start with 0.3mL/100L. If there is no effect there is too little B-Balance Elements in the water. B-Balance should then be dosed dayly for 1 wk 1mL/100mL. Do Not Redose ZEOspur2 until 7 days after B-Balance every 14 days: 3.4mL with 1.7 mL Iodide Complex Mix 88.4 mL

    Iodide Complex Each 20 days 1ml/100L mixed w/ZeoSpur2 11.35 mL every 20 days + ZeoSpur2 Mix ZeoSpur2 with MIXING DEVICE 0.5675 mL / day 44.2 mL

  • #2
    1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.) - Display Tank 120g, Frag Tank 50g, 175g Stock Tank Sump: 320 US gallons /
    2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) - 300 US gallons / 1135 liter
    3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique: Automated CaCO2 + Kalk ATO
    4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.) GFO 10 oz., changed monthly
    5. Are you using Ozone: No
    6. Are you using UV: Yes 57 Watt 12 hours/day
    7. What skimmer are you using: Super Reef Octopus Sump Saver 600, 600gal rated
    8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels. 08 PO4 (Hannah ULR Phosphorous), 10ppm (Salifert)
    9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels 450ppm, 8.6 dKh, 1350 Mg
    10. What filtration method do you use (refugium, DSB, Miracle Mud, etc.) 175gal rubbermaid stock tank live rock, 100micron filter sock
    11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.) Display Tank: (2) Radion G5 XR30 + (1) XR15 12 hr photo period w/2 hours ramp up/down + (4) 48", 54 watt ATI T5 bulbs
    12. What corals do you keep: Acropora. + some zoa, lobophylia, goniapora
    13. Tissue color (light or dark): mix, likely darker than seen in zeo tank
    14. How long has the tank been running: 9 Years
    15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system: Precision, Redux of Phosphates
    16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.): Lugols Iodide 3 drops 3x/wk; Sr, 4ml 3x/week; potassium 10 ml 1x/week; Amino 10ml 1-2x/week; have also used Coral Snow 4ml 2x/week, FWS 4ml 2x/week, CB & CV 8 drops 1-2x/week
    17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.) 100lbs + Older than my tank!
    18. Any present problems: Hi Phosphate, Cyano/Dino/Frequent Glass Cleaning/Mulm
    19. Problem description (tissue loss tips, tissue loss base, diatom bloom, algae, etc.): Diatom blooms Some Cyano/Brown or Red on sand and Rock, Brown/Green Film on glass requires daily cleaning
    20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.) Salifert Alkalinity: Daily, Salifert NO3 Weekly, Hanna ULR Weekly
    21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.): None
    22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.) 1.026 Seachem Salinity, 77 deg temp constant; pH 8.0-8.4
    23. Which salt brand do you use: SeaChem Salinity

    Notes: Sandbed is 'aesthetic' 1-2.5" depth Vacuumed bi-monthly. Bi-monthly 50g water change, Daily/3x/week Glass Cleaning & Turkey-Baste Sand & live rock. RO/DI monitored closely for zero TDS

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Put 2.84 liters of Zeovit into the Zeo reactor. The water flow is about 1135 litres per hour. Connect the reactor pump to the clock timer and run the reaction pump at intervals of 3 hours on / 3 hours on / 3 hours on. When turning off the pump, make sure that the zeolite is not exposed to air. Clean materials daily. Leave the zeolite in the filter for 4 weeks until you make the first replacement. This is the first change interval, other intervals can be extended to 6-8 weeks.

      2. Place 1.1 liters of activated carbon in the filter socks and keep it in a passive water flow (replace every 30 days). Knead the carbon every day to keep the surface clean. Most users use korallenzucht toner to get perfect results.

      3. During the first 2 weeks, take 11 drops of ZeoBac daily, 2 to 3 times a week, 2 drops each time. Take 1.14ml ZeoStart 2 x daily (morning and evening). The dose before starting the Zeo reactor pump.

      Later, you can use other products for coral coloring. Adjust your skimmer so that it is slightly wet and keep it clean for export as much as possible. Change water 5-10% weekly with high-quality salt.

      For this system, it is not recommended to use a PO4 absorber. If you start with zeovit, I recommend removing 1/3 of the absorbent, and then gradually reducing the remaining absorbent to zero over the next 6-8 weeks. If you do this, pay attention to the PO4 level, which should not increase. It is not recommended to use a germicidal lamp. Since a germicidal lamp is used, if you want to give it a try, please turn off the germicidal lamp for 2 hours when adding any products.

      The basic water parameters look good. Try to make it as stable as possible to keep NSW stable in the following range:

      KH 6.5 – 7.5
      Ca 400 – 420 mg
      Mg 1250 – 1300 mg
      K + ~ 380 mg

      For a malnourished environment, it seems that K + (potassium) has become an important element. I suggest you also get a test suite for this element and publish the results.

      This is the starting dose and may need to be adjusted later. Jacky

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Jacky I’ll work on following these instructions ...but before i get started on the zeo program I am hoping to get my additional research questions answered as posted above. Looking Forward! Greg

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello Greg and welcome to ZeoVit.com !

          Additinal to Jackies dosing recommendations I try to answer your questions as follows:

          1. Most of eh products which are dosed in higher quantities can be diluted with RO water if necessary, ZeoStart is ideal therefore if you can make sure your dosing system is dosing accurate. Here is a example: https://forum.zeovit.com/forum/gener...429#post408429

          Other products which are dosed in quantities of 1 ml / 100 liters which do not need to be shaken can be dosed manually also but they are usually not dosed daily so usually 2 x weekly which might be better to dose them manually as it does not really consume time.

          Products which are dosed in quantities of 1 drop / 100 liters should be dosed manually like Iodine, ZeoBac, AAHC, BioMate etc.

          3. ZeoVit does not really consumes elements which are necessary for the coals so this is basically not the reason why elements are additional dosed to the system. The elements added are consumed by every system so it is nothing special for ZeoVit, more for a nutrient poor environment.

          4. The reactor should run in a 3 hour on / off interval for the first couple of weeks while transfer the system to ZeoVit. This does speed down the changes a little bit to support the corals while the changes. Later on the reactor should run continuously with the recommended water flow. If you are not able to run the on / off interval with your reactor you can alternatively speed down the flow to 50% for the first couple of weeks.

          Passive flown carbon is less “aggressive” in removing elements so it is usually better especially at the beginning. If you use a adequate carbon like the korallenzucht carbon you can alternatively later use it in some kind of a reactor but therefore reduce the quantity to 50% and replace the material every 3 weeks.

          G.Alexander

          Comment


          • #6


            In # 11, there are detailed instructions for the dilution of Zeo Start solution

            https://forum.zeovit.com/forum/gener...nformation-faq

            Some products of Zeo can be diluted and used, and some products cannot be diluted. Since I add them manually, I ca n’t give you any better suggestions for this part, such as: refrigeration problems, sedimentation problems, mixing problems, etc.

            I will suggest that you perform Zeo basic dosing manually for the time being, which is more accurate and safer. After using it for a period of time, you will get more experience. Over time, Zeo basic products have reduced nutrients, and the relative basic products have also been gradually reduced. However, Zeo Bac and Sponge Power are used in a dose of drops and cannot be diluted, and some problems must be avoided, etc. So I suggest you temporarily add it manually, this is the safest. Zeo nutrition and coloring products are adjusted according to the appearance of corals according to the dosage. They are basically administered twice a week, but it is difficult to say because corals are a good indicator.


            Zeolite materials and trace elements, I always refresh the balance by changing the water every week. I understand that zeolite stripping elements, but this is not a problem, Zeo foundation reduces nutrition in a balanced manner. Focus on: quantity, reactor flow rate per hour, replacement cycle, and that's it.

            If I understand what you mean, these are some of my thoughts. I suggest you use Zeo's zeolite reactor. This is not a problem anymore. When the pump stops, the material must be kept immersed in water to avoid exposure to the air. What we need is to match the flow through the outlet of the reactor with the net water volume

            Because this is the most convenient and safe way, passive flight, 30 days replacement. If the reactor is used, there will be differences in the number and replacement cycle, and there may be too much and cause additional pressure on the coral

            I wonder if you like my answer? If I have lost your question, you are welcome to ask again



            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you Jacky &amp; G.Alexander. I feel i have a good sense now on how to get started. I was hopeful that more products other than zeoStart woild be conducive to using an automated doser but i can understand that this is safer to dose manually. Especially now that dosers are more readily controlled and presumably accuracy has improved.

              I suspect that my current high PO4 (.08-.14) is due to leaching eventhough the system is 10 years running perhaps the po4 was bound in live rock until recently. I assume the zeolites will combat this high po4; GFO running currently is not bringing po4 down

              id like to hear from others That have successfully or unsuccessfully utilized dosing equipment
              id like to hear about ICP testing as the guide for trace element dosing as well
              I

              Comment


              • #8
                I’m looking to auto dose as well. I do not need to dilute, as my doser is controllable and can dose as small as .01 ml at a time. Here is what I’m looking to auto dose:
                Zeostart - daily [1.2ml total, split into .05ml per hour]

                Flatworm stop - daily [6ml]

                Spongepower - every other day [.3ml]

                Pohl’s Extra - every other day [3ml]

                I know the amounts are correct, as I have been dosing manually at these levels successfully. Do you see any issue automating this? Also, other than the Zeostart, is there any benefit to breaking up the other doses throughout the day, instead of dosing all at once?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Zeo Start nourishes Zeo Bac (bacterial food) and reduces nitrate and phosphate to maintain bacterial density and support ecology. I think so. Except that ZeoStart is more important, there seems to be no product that can be used for all-day planning. I have tried to give a sufficient dose and a separate dose once, and the appearance of a single dose plan on the coral is even more obvious. For example: CoralSnow24ml, once. With CoralSnow1mlx24hr. It is better to give a full dose at a time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Basically you can dose all products which do not need to be shaken before use or have to be stored in the fridge. Dose all products on different dosing channels.

                    G.Alexander

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jacky View Post
                      1. Put 2.84 liters of Zeovit into the Zeo reactor. The water flow is about 1135 litres per hour. Connect the reactor pump to the clock timer and run the reaction pump at intervals of 3 hours on / 3 hours on / 3 hours on. When turning off the pump, make sure that the zeolite is not exposed to air. Clean materials daily. Leave the zeolite in the filter for 4 weeks until you make the first replacement. This is the first change interval, other intervals can be extended to 6-8 weeks.

                      2. Place 1.1 liters of activated carbon in the filter socks and keep it in a passive water flow (replace every 30 days). Knead the carbon every day to keep the surface clean. Most users use korallenzucht toner to get perfect results.

                      3. During the first 2 weeks, take 11 drops of ZeoBac daily, 2 to 3 times a week, 2 drops each time. Take 1.14ml ZeoStart 2 x daily (morning and evening). The dose before starting the Zeo reactor pump.

                      Later, you can use other products for coral coloring. Adjust your skimmer so that it is slightly wet and keep it clean for export as much as possible. Change water 5-10% weekly with high-quality salt.

                      For this system, it is not recommended to use a PO4 absorber. If you start with zeovit, I recommend removing 1/3 of the absorbent, and then gradually reducing the remaining absorbent to zero over the next 6-8 weeks. If you do this, pay attention to the PO4 level, which should not increase. It is not recommended to use a germicidal lamp. Since a germicidal lamp is used, if you want to give it a try, please turn off the germicidal lamp for 2 hours when adding any products.

                      The basic water parameters look good. Try to make it as stable as possible to keep NSW stable in the following range:

                      KH 6.5 – 7.5
                      Ca 400 – 420 mg
                      Mg 1250 – 1300 mg
                      K + ~ 380 mg

                      For a malnourished environment, it seems that K + (potassium) has become an important element. I suggest you also get a test suite for this element and publish the results.

                      This is the starting dose and may need to be adjusted later. Jacky
                      Please specify: During the first 2 weeks, take 11 drops of ZeoBac daily, 2 to 3 times a week, 2 drops each time. Take 1.14ml ZeoStart 2 x daily (morning and evening). The dose before starting the Zeo reactor pump.

                      the above zeobac dosage is not clear: 11 drops 2-4x per week..ok... but then it states “2 drops each time”. What does this mean?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When you start with the system dose 11 drops ZeoBac daily for 10 days, than continue with 11 drops 2 – 3 x weekly until the next ZeoVit exchange. Additional dose 1.1 ml ZeoStart 2 x daily (moring / evening) so 2.2 ml total per day.

                        G.Alexander

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          G.Alexander: what is the recommendation for flowrate through the zeo reactor? You mentioned above:
                          “The reactor should run in a 3 hour on / off interval for the first couple of weeks while transfer the system to ZeoVit. This does speed down the changes a little bit to support the corals while the changes. Later on the reactor should run continuously with the recommended water flow. If you are not able to run the on / off interval with your reactor you can alternatively speed down the flow to 50% for the first couple of weeks.”

                          what is the initial flow rate (50% for first 2 weeks) and what is the recommended flow rate after the initial 2 weeks?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The recommended flow rate for the reactor is 400 liters or 100 US gallons per hour for each 1 liter ZeoVit.

                            For the transfer of a already stocked system to ZeoVit it is recommended to use this flow with a 3 hour on / off interval, if this is not possible the reactor can be used with continuous flow but in this case use just 200 liters or 50 US gallons per hour for each 1 liter ZeoVit.

                            About 2 weeks after the first ZeoVit exchange you can switch the reactor to continuous flow or to the flow of 400 liters or 100 US gallons per hour for each 1 liter ZeoVit. This is usually 6 weeks after the start of ZeoVit if all corals are doing well.

                            G.Alexander

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Please explain the difference between Kz products K Balance and Potassium Flouride. Im making my shopping list and want to have the right products on-hand. Thanks!

                              Comment

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