PO4 and NO3 reduction imbalance using Zeo?

[jwaltman21]

In The Reef Aquarium Vol 3 Sprung indicated that utilizing the Vodka method for nutrient reduction would cause the gradual drop of PO4 over time with a subsequent drastic drop of NO3 towards the end of the PO4 reduction (chart p 275). I was curious if others have seen a similar effect using the Zeo method. Am I experiencing something similar? I ask bc my Nitrates remain stable at ~5ppm while my PO4 concentration must have dropped, as evidenced by reduced micro algae growth (couldn't measure low enough to see beginning values; currently .01 using Hanna). Will my nitrates just fall "overnight" someday?

- Jamie

[EFRAIN TORRES]

vodka method and zeovit is the same

[EFRAIN TORRES]

ask mesocom

[jwaltman21]

Thanks Efrain. So do you think that my Nitrates will drop someday then?

[G.Alexander]

Efrain, I did not agree, dosing ethanol (vodka) is just a small part of the system, one carbon source, which nourishes some kind of bacteria they are already present in the tank, forming a mono culture of some kinds. With the zeovit system you also add different bacteria strains working in a “row” to convert nutrients. With the zeovit system you also add different carbons for different bacteria strains which makes the system controllable.

However, with the system you do not have to fear a sudden NO3 drop if PO4 is already poor concentrated.

G.Alexander

[jwaltman21]

G. Alexander:

Thanks, but I don't quite understand: Will the NO3 drop? And if so, how would it drop (suddenly, progressively?) if PO4 is low already?

Thanks again,

Jamie

[Aged Salt]

Hi Jamie, no, the N03's will not just disappear overnight, but will continue downward steadily with ZEOvit. Are you cycling the zeolite reactor? Thnx. Bob

[jwaltman21]

Bob:

Thanks for your input. I'm doing the suggested "3 on, 3 off" cycle but have seen a steady NO3 (5ppm) while the PO4 has dropped (not proven via testing but from results, see above). I am doing the requisite water changes, not feeding too much, and dose, pump, BK wet skimming and whatever else is called for in the regimine. Do I just need to be a little more patient?

- Jamie

[Aged Salt]

Yup; when cleaning the zeolites, use 20 reps each time for awhile & watch the nutrients go down Bob

[jwaltman21]

Bob:

Time to kick in the turbos! Will do; I'll keep you posted. Quick question: All of my other vital parameters are in line with the program...would it be premature to start adding SPS corals with the NO3 as high as 5ppm? I obviously don't want to harm them but have to say that the tank has never looked so good (thanks to Zeo) making me anxious to start the next step(s).

- Jamie

[Aged Salt]

Hi Jamie, I would With N03's high yet, I'd suggest the color green Bob

[jwaltman21]

Bob:

Thanks a lot for your help. I look forward to establishing a nice sps tank! Are there any particular species that might be a bit hardier than others with the nutrients a little high still? I am anxious for your any anyone else's suggestions!!!

Thanks,

Jamie

[Travis]

Some good starter sps would be montipora caps, montipora digitatas, and pocilloporas. The green slimer (A. yongei) is a hardy acro if you want to try an acro. It is also a coral that is very easy to keep its color.

[jwaltman21]

Travis:

Thanks for the suggestions!

- Jamie

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

In The Reef Aquarium Vol 3 Sprung indicated that utilizing the Vodka method for nutrient reduction would cause the gradual drop of PO4 over time with a subsequent drastic drop of NO3 towards the end of the PO4 reduction (chart p 275). ...

Before getting into the question ... there's an aspect of the Sprung/Delbeek (.. or is it Mrutzek/Kokott? ..) chart that I find most annoying. It's the kind of thing that would have resulted in a 2+ grade level reduction if it appeared in one of my student's homework (.. an 'A' to a 'C-' VERY quickly). Take a look at the increments on the x-axis (Day of Application) ... the increments (between days) are NOT symmetrical. Linear plotting of data points within an asymmetric coordinate axis?! No. I think not ...

... ... pity that the graphic is fundamentally distorted as a result .

... I was curious if others have seen a similar effect using the Zeo method. Am I experiencing something similar? ...

Yes. I was somewhat surprised that NO3 depletion lagged ... briefly ... behind PO4 depletion in my old ZEOsystem.

But it makes sense ... by dosing ethanol, carbon is no longer limiting. All other things being equal, in terms of the Redfield Ratio, you would expect that P would become limiting. "Limiting factors" are almost always consumed first in this kind of model.

... I ask bc my Nitrates remain stable at ~5ppm while my PO4 concentration must have dropped, as evidenced by reduced micro algae growth (couldn't measure low enough to see beginning values; currently .01 using Hanna). Will my nitrates just fall "overnight" someday?
- Jamie

Bob is correct about engaging the ZEOreactor ... what else is new?

Having said that, it is mildly curious that the NO3 hasn't been consumed to near undectactable levels. Look at the units on the x-axis of the Delbeek/Sprung graph ... NO3 depletion occured a mere 24 hours later. See what I meant about "graphic distortion"? I would have expected a similar timeframe within a ZEOvit model.

Not that either of these possibilities are particularly problematic, but ...

(1) the nutrient profiles of foods can vary significantly. Perhaps the food composition has a somewhat higher N:P (... nitrogen to phosphorous ratio ...). For example, if you're feeding crustacean-based food products (... krill, mysids, brine shrimp, rotifers, copepods, cyclopeeze... et cetera ...) into the system, you might expect to see a higher N:P ratio because of the enriched protein levels of those types of food products; or (2) "Test kit variance". Given the differences of precision between visual titration "readings" and colorimetric readings, what you're seeing may be nothing more than percentage error ... a test kit variable.

Either way, I don't hear you describing anything to be particularly concerned about. If the disparity persists over time, then it might be time to start examining the nutrient profiles of what you're feeding.



JMO ... HTH