A little confused on what my Alkalinity and Calcium is doing.

[WayneL333]

I’m confused on what’s going on. First, I have a MRC 2 chamber Calcium Reactor and a MRC Kalk reactor. When, I test my Ca., it is around 370-390ppm. I have a really hard time getting it above 400. I turn up the CO2 thinking this will dissolve more Ca and it does because I have to “top off” my calcium reactor media about once every 1-2 months.

But when I test my Alkalinity, it is consistently at about 11.5-12.5dKH. I know this is keeping my calcium down. I know 12.5 isn’t THAT bad, but it is high. My question is how do I lower my Alk and effectively keep my Alk and Ca. in the proper areas? Do I have the CO2 too high? Will everything drop down to normal if I turn it down? What's the genral rule of thumb on how many bubbles/s in the buble counter. Mine is like 4 bubbles/second.

Here is some other pertinent information. My pH range from 8.07-8.25. 0 Nitrates however, my PO4 is high, .1ppm, because I have a large bio load from my many fish and frequent small feedings.

Other than the readings being off, the reason I’m concerned is because I think I see a litte STN on the back rim of my Watermelon Echino. I’ve had it in my system for like 4 months without a problem. I haven’t lost any other SPS’s although I think my coral growth is relatively slow.


Thanks for the help,

~ w

[GTR]

First I'd not try to make that large of a Ca correction with either the CO2 reactor or with limewater. Both of those as you know will take the alk up with it. I'd use a calcium only additive to get the level up to your target, something like Kent Turbo Calcium would work fine. It will just take a lot of it for sure.

SteveU

[WayneL333]

EDIT: I'm sorry. I don't know what's wrong with me. The Ca. reading are 100ppm higher. They are 370-390ppm, not 270-290ppm. I have a hard time getting it above 400 or to my ideal 420ppm.

[jwaltman21]

Calcium Hydroxide will boost Ca levels without raising Alk (and at higher doses will cause the alk to drop); then your Ca and Kalk RXs will maintain that Ca level if dialed in correctly. I would stop using the Kalk reactor if you are using zeo; no need to sequester PO4 with this sytem; and just use the Ca rx to maintain Ca levels. Dialing it in will take some trial and error time but once set, adjustments are only necessary with increased Ca uptake from your inhabitants.

[GTR]

I still don't see a problem with a one-time (or occassional) use of calcium chloride for the correction.

SteveU

[WayneL333]

Is there any particular brand you recommend? Thanks.

[mr. pluto]

if this was me, i would turn off the reactor for a few days.add
kent turbo calcuim slowly, for me it would be like 12 teaspoons for 20ppm rise
check alk levels a few days later to see if it dropped to 8dkh or 7. cal should be
at 410~ or so if balanced. turn on reactor again & readjust.

[GTR]

Brand wise it really depends on how much you'll need. I suppose Kent is fine and I've used it in the past. As with all calcium chloride products it takes more than you think it should to show an increase. But since your'e only looking for a 30ppm increase it wont be so much.

Keep in mind that when you do water changes they may be helping or hurting those levels.

I use this calculator for additives.
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

SteveU

[WayneL333]

if this was me, i would turn off the reactor for a few days.add
kent turbo calcuim slowly, for me it would be like 12 teaspoons for 20ppm rise
check alk levels a few days later to see if it dropped to 8dkh or 7. cal should be
at 410~ or so if balanced. turn on reactor again & readjust.

Thanks all for all the help.

Mr. Pluto: when you say readjust when I turn my reactors on again, what do you think knocked my Alk and Cal off kilter in the first place? I guess what I am asking is what causes relatively low Calcium and higher Alk? Am I adding to much Limewater or am I adding to much CO2 to my Calcium reactor? Just curious which one I need to lower...

Many thanks.

[Diesel3443]

your magnesium might be low

[mr. pluto]

you have to slow the reactor way down.. do not use a reactor to up your calc.

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

if this was me, i would turn off the reactor for a few days.add
kent turbo calcuim slowly, for me it would be like 12 teaspoons for 20ppm rise
check alk levels a few days later to see if it dropped to 8dkh or 7. cal should be
at 410~ or so if balanced. turn on reactor again & readjust.

This would be my strategy as well ...

you have to slow the reactor way down.. do not use a reactor to up your calc.

Indeed ... see article extract below.

... what do you think knocked my Alk and Cal off kilter in the first place?

Calcium reactor adjustment. You're not alone ... Pesky toys, aren't they? :cursin:

... I guess what I am asking is what causes relatively low Calcium and higher Alk? Am I adding to much Limewater or am I adding to much CO2 to my Calcium reactor? Just curious which one I need to lower...

Not surprisingly, Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley has written about this ...

Zone 3 problems are a little harder to correct, and are fairly common. It is, in fact, the problem in the real question posed at the beginning of this article (it doesn’t say so there, but the alkalinity was 3.2 meq/L). This problem is typically caused by overdosing alkalinity RELATIVE to calcium, but does not necessarily imply that calcium is either too high or too low (though it is almost always too low). To correct problems in this zone, monitoring of calcium and alkalinity values during correction is especially important.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </O:P>

<O:P style="MARGIN: 0px"></O:P>
One more word about this zone before getting to solutions: Many tanks end up here because aquarists are trying to correct pH problems by adding “buffer.” In my opinion, one should not try to correct any pH problem by simply adding an alkalinity supplement. If you are low on alkalinity, it is a fine course of action to raise the alkalinity. But if alkalinity is OK, or even high, adding an alkalinity supplement to alter the pH may simply create a worse problem. Better solutions to pH problems are discussed in this recent article<SUP>6</SUP>.<O:P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </O:P>

<O:P style="MARGIN: 0px"></O:P>
If this problem is extreme (i.e., you are far from the line at the right hand edge of zone 3), then water changes may be the best way to correct to the problem. In most cases, however, water changes aren’t necessary.

I would advise correcting this problem by adding a calcium chloride supplement until you have moved into the target zone (or zones 1 or 2 that you can then treat as described above) as shown in Figure 4. Almost any brand of calcium chloride will do (Kent Turbo Calcium, Kent Liquid Calcium, ESV, etc.). Certain other calcium supplements may also be OK (such as just the calcium component of the two-part calcium and alkalinity additive systems), but you do not want to add any alkalinity. You CANNOT use limewater or a calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactor to correct this problem. Any of the balanced calcium and alkalinity additive systems will move you parallel to the line at the edge of the zone, while you want to move over to it, and cross it.


If calcium is less than 400 ppm, I’d suggest using this handy online calculator<SUP>7</SUP> to determine how much dry calcium chloride is necessary to move back to the target zone. Note that it is a minimum estimate because it does not know how much alkalinity you have, so it cannot know if you are only raising calcium directly (which it calculates) or are also precipitating calcium carbonate (when alkalinity is high this will probably happen, but is typically not a problem other than that it uses up some of what you add).





Extracted from:
Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems Part 1
Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley, November 2002.
Advanced Aquarist Online Magazine (RDO)

If anyone's interested, this is definitely a worthwhile read.



JMO ... HTH

[CAReefer]

Read the link that Gary provides and keep in mind that Calcium Reactors should not be used to raise levels, just to maintain them. Think of it as an Alk reactor. Your main goal is to stabilize your alk with the reactor. Given enough time the Ca will also fall inline. Focus on getting your alk <8.0 and supplement the CA with your choice of additive. Any changes in alk should be done slowly. Personally I would either slow the reactor way down or shut it down for 24 hrs and check alk. Mag levels will also keep CA low. Mg should be at least 1250. If you decide to shut the reactor down, just turn off the C02, keep the water flowing through the reactor. I've heard horror stories of guys shutting the reactor down completely for a few days and restarting it pumping a nasty/toxic soup back into their system.

HTH
Marshal

[WayneL333]

I love you guys

Thanks for the much needed help.

[zcom]

I haven't seen it mentioned before (except a reference by Marshal), so I'll mention...

Magnesium.

I've had a devil of a time the last 3-4 months trying to figure out a problem with my tank; had a piece or two STN every week, after a year of complete stability on my 240. After stopping or severely lowering dosing of most everything, checking for pennies in the sump (damn kids ), etc., I had originally thought I traced it to difficulty maintaining alkalinity and CA where I want them, so I cleaned out the CA reactor, etc. Seemed better, but I just couldn't get the numbers right...alk was high, CA low, then alk was low...bounced around a lot.

I finally checked Mg, which I hadn't done in a while, and found it was at around 1000-1050 (never can tell exactly with those damn colors ). I didn't think it would be that much of a problem, but decided to fix it. Over a week, I got to 1350 Mg...and my alk and CA are now nicely balanced. Too early to tell if all this balance fixed my original problem, but things do seem much better.

Check your magnesium.

Arthur