Just a couple of questions

[Ruth]

OK I'm back from holidays (great hockey by the way) and resumed my zeo dosing as before. Just the basic 4 - Start2 1ml 2X day, Bac and food 2 X week and 2L zeolites. The only thing that has changed is that I got a second hand reactor and have that set up with 100g/h of flow, and I finally figured out, with help from the great guys at Ocean Aquatics in Vancouver (who will soon be stocking zeo products I understand). I am running the reactor 24/7 right now until I get a timer.
My question is should I just treat this as if I am starting all over again as there was no zeo dosing for just about 3 weeks while I was gone.
OK, that was question #1. Now for #2. I started this tank up in the beginning of October and cycled it until I started Zeo in the middle of November. I started it with reef crystals salt but am just about out of that salt. I purchased a whack of Tropic Marin pro salt when I was down in Vancouver - like 8 buckets because it is so expensive to ship. I was sure that I had read before that Bob was using it mixed with IO or just using it by itself. Well then I get reading another thread and it is not recommended to use........DOH! What now? I have ordered some of the new SeaChem salt but it won't be here until the beginning of March and there is no place here that I can purchase salt. Soooooooo I have 2 choices. I can switch to the Tropic Marin and then switch again in March. I can use the Tropic Marin in my other tanks and switch to Formula salt, which I have enough of to do me until March and then switch again to the Seachem. I would just use the Formula salt (Japanese salt) but you can't buy it here anymore as the importer decided not to bring it in anymore so that is not an option.
Okey Dokey - my last question. I got my Hanna colorimeter last week and finally cracked it open and tested my water. What had been reading as 0.03 to 0.1 on my Salifert test is reading like 0.23 on the Hanna! Yikes. What can I do to bring this down? This is likely the reason that I am having trouble with my SPS browning out. I have zero algea except for coralline but have been feeding frozen mysis shrimp once a day to my Moorish Idol. He will also eat my own homemade concoction so will switch to that. I also feed one sheet of Nori once a day. The only fish in this tank are a large Naso Tang, a Moorish Idol, and 2 Helfrich's firefish so not a large bioload. The tank is 190g and I do 10-15% water changes once a week.
Sorry for the long winded post.............

[CAReefer]

Hey Ruth, welcome back. First off, how far into the zeo 8 week cycle are the current zeo stones? If they are 6 weeks or more, I would go ahead and reload the reactor keeping about 10% of the old stones to seed the new. One reason for the elevated P04 could be the flow rate. It needs to be 100 gph per liter of stones. So raise that up to 200 gph. As far as the salt goes, The TM isn't a terrible salt. The biggest issue IIRC is the low Mg and that is pretty easily supplemented. Since you have 8 buckets worth, I would probably go ahead and use it. But then again, if you have the means to use it in other tanks, there is no sense in putting the tank through the additional salt change. Probably the best would be to keep using the salt you have been (after a P04 test as this may be a source of your elevated levels.) until the SeaChem arrives. Mine has tested .00 P04 from all 9 bags I have used to date. Now that you have your Hanna meter out, start testing everything from source water, Ca Reactor effluent, foods and WC water. You may be suprised at what you find and potentially lower P04 input by locating the source. You can also cut back to everyother day (at least until you get the P04 under control or locate the source) feeding as there will be plenty of natural food sources within the tank itself. As far as the Hanna meter goes, did you get the cleaning solution with the meter? Fingerprints on the cuvette will also spike the readings. My procedure for testing is to keep the cuvettes in RO/DI water when not in use. Handle only by the threads and use a paper towel when holding for screwing the lid on. Do not cap the cuvette with your finger as phosphates from your skin will skew the accuracy. Rinse the cuvette several times by dipping and pouring out of the test water, refill and put the lid on. Zero the meter, add the regeants and swirl till completely dissolved, around 2 minutes. Any remaining regeants in the cuvette will raise the readings also. Do an immediate reading (I usaully get .09 and .03 after a timed test.) and then run the timed test, this gives time for any remaining regeants to settle to the bottom. Also check for any microbubbles adhering to the sides of the cuvette as these too will elevate the reading. If bubbles are present, tilt the cuvette horizontally and slowly rotate, the free space in the sample will remove the bubbles from the sides.

Sorry for the long response, but got some time to kill tonight.
Marshal

ps. I think you will really like the SeaChem salt, it is doing very well for me after switching from Oceanic.

[Aged Salt]

Hi Ruth, glad you're back Another problem with TM's salt is K+ deficiency, so if you use this salt add K-Balance at 1ml/25g net for 3 days, then 1ml/100g net daily, Bob

[Ruth]

Thanks guys. I do have K-Balance so will use that when I switch salt mixes. Do you recommend that I only use the TM salt until the Seachem gets here? It just seems that switching salt 2 times in 2 months might not be the best thing to do but I'm open to advise?
Also am I OK to just continue on with my current dosing schedule given the 3 week break? When I set up the reactor on Thursday I did change out the zeolites (retaining 10% of my old stones). Should I be starting to add anything else? I have been using the CV (10 drops) and AAHC (3 drops)
I will try and retest for PO4 tonight being following Marshal's advise and see if I come up with a different #. Does anyone know if Nori will add PO4 to your system as that is what I have been feeding the most of? I don't have much on my LR for my fish to pick at and really want to try my best with the MI. By the way I did not order this fish but was talked into taking it by the fish store in Vancouver that I get most of my supplies from. It came in with a shipment they got and the original plan was to keep it in my 230 but the Yellow Tang was having none of that so he had to go into this tank.

[CAReefer]

As far as dosing goes, just pick up where you left off. I would stick with the same salt, 2 changes in 2 months isn't worth the risk IMO. You probably are aware, but dose bak/food every other day for the first 2 weeks, then 3 times weekly. The best way to check the different foods for P04 is soak them in RO/DI water (after testing for P04 and being 0) for an hour or two then pour the water off through a coffee filter if necessary and test it. Probably go with the Salifert test first, if you get a reading of .00, then use the hanna. I would check everything that goes into the tank with the hanna, it's fun to play with and you might be suprised where the P04 is coming from. My Ca Reactor was running at over .10 at first. We'll discuss that if it need be. Just test everything. Once you know the routine, practice makes things repeatable.

Marshal

[Ruth]

Marshall, thanks for your help. I did a water change (about 15%) and retested making sure that I did not handle the vial with my bare hands and the reading was down to .18. I have the curvet soaking in RO water and will leave it there when not in use. I did not get any of the cleaning solution so will have to check with Madison to see if I can order some.
Did not get around to checking Calcium Reactor effluent but will be testing all, hopefully tonight if it is not too late when I get back from work.
Good news I found a temp. source for Seachem salt so should have a couple of boxes on the bus today and should be here for my next water change. I will use the TM on my other tanks.
I am still a little confused on where I am at in the initial 8 week cycle given that I did not do any dosing for just about 3 weeks. I have changed the zeolites (last Thursday). So am I at week 6 or do I consider myself back at week 1 again and go from there?

[CAReefer]

If you just changed the zeolites out on thursday, this thursday will be the end of week one. You should be dosing bak/food everyother day for two weeks after zeo change out. Then 2 or 3 times per week. When you change the stones, you restart the cycle. Make sense? So 6 weeks from last thursday, you will need to change them again. You might try upping the start2 dosage by 1/2 a mil or so and see what it does to the P04 readings. I'm guessing that your calcium reactor is contributing significantly to the problem. Do you run a DI cartridge after your RO? If not that too could be a significant source of Phosphate. Let us know how the testing goes. Good news on the salt, it will certainly be easier on the tank and its inhabitants.

Marshal

[Ruth]

Thanks Marshall. Yup makes sense. I will test my water as I buy all my water (RO only) from a fairly high tech water store. I don't have the option at the moment of running a small system myself as I am on well water and the TDS is very high (like over 2000ppms) so would need a very complicated system (which I will probably do when and if I build an addition to my house). Will also test calcium reactor effluent tonight. The reactor is a grotech and I am using their media which I thought was supposed to be low in PO4 but we'll see.
Yes good news on the salt - I had to pay a lot more for it but I think it will be cheap compared to further stressing my system.

[Ruth]

OK I am still playing around with the Hanna and am now getting a reading of .12 so it is coming down or I am getting better at using the Hanna. My next question - is there a trick to getting the reagent out of the little envelope and making sure you get it all. It doesn't pour or tip out all that well so was wondering if you should put a few drops of the test water in the envelope and then pour it back into the container? I know I know I am dense but I still need an answer and so far Heinz hasn't shown up to give me a hand with my tank!

[Ger]

Ruth, see if this works... cut a small piece of corner, turn the little envelope like you would when you pour and then cut the opposite corner with the scissors to get air in there. That should make it run out.... If not, try this. That usually works for me.

[Ruth]

Thanks Ger - I'll try that but I think I am either going to progress quickly to or maybe

[Ruth]

Should I be introducing any other products at this stage or just stick with the basic 4 with CV and AAHC?

[CAReefer]

I'm by no means the expert here, so Bob or someone will chime in if I'm wrong. I would say go ahead with the AAHC, CV and possibly the PIF. I would watch the SPS carefully, if they start to go "pastel", start in with the K-Balance.

[Ruth]

Thanks Marshal. So how much PIF should I be dosing and how often? I have k-balance but will need to order more soon as I only got a 250ml bottle for now.

[CAReefer]

If you've been following the thread on the SeaChem salt, remember to reduce the amount of K+ you dose when you switch over.

The PIF has always been tough for me to gauge the dosing. I currently dose 8 drops daily into 340 net gallons. A safe starting point would be 1 drop per 25 gallons 3x week.

As for the Hanna meter, I found that if I get a reading higher than anticipated, I wash out the cuvette with the cleaning solution and things go back to what is expected. If the cuvette gets dirty, it has given me readings of .10 and after cleaning, goes back to .03 which is where I try and keep my tank. So If it were me, I wouldn't worry too much about the number at this point, but IMHO the cleaning solution is a must.

Marshal