Zeovit without Korallen-Zucht Products?

[LaYZeR]

Hello,
I would like to ask if it's possible to make a Zeovit Tank without Korallen-Zucht products, because we don't have it here, so if it's possible can I get some explanations how to do it? (I'm in the beginning of the Cycle).
so I need please a little explanation how to do, and which additives should I use?


Thanks A lot,
Aviad.

[GTR]

The ZEOvit method of course includes the products produced by Korallen-Zucht as you know. We as users can't really advice you on what to use as a replacement for each of these products since we don't have any idea what they contain.
Our experiences with them has only allowed us to help others new to the system.

SteveU

[Heinz]

Aviad,
why dont you just order what you need direct from germany ?
did you try that already ?

[cetled]

read threads on the vodka method or invest in good equipment like this tank so you dont have to add countless additives.
tank

[Aged Salt]

Hi Alois, as you may or may not know, the ZEOvit & volka method are only similar in that both are bacterial driven, & that's where the similarity ends.

1)The carbon sources are different in ZEOvit vs. volka
2)With ZEOvit, one has control & a dosing guide;volka can be extremely dangerous with no controlled, repeatable dosing. Entire coral wipe-outs can happen overnight.
3)Most ZEOvit tanks have stunning coral colors & growth.;most volka tanks pale in comparison in coral color.

The zeo-additives are not a must with ZEOvit method, but are beneficial in fine-tuning coral color, & growth, therefore, has a positive affect on overall coral health.

Bob

[Orion76]

Hello,
I would like to ask if it's possible to make a Zeovit Tank without Korallen-Zucht products, because we don't have it here, so if it's possible can I get some explanations how to do it? (I'm in the beginning of the Cycle).
so I need please a little explanation how to do, and which additives should I use?

All Zeo additives are made by Korallen Zucht so to use Zeovit you'll have to use Korallen Zucht products. They are not available in my country either so I just buy them online, not a problem at all.

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

I would like to ask if it's possible to make a Zeovit Tank without Korallen-Zucht products ...

If you're asking about replicating Thomas Pohl's ZEOvit methodology, I would think that would be difficult without Korallen-Zucht products ... certainly not impossible (we're not dealing with voodoo or magic, after all) ... but I would think that selecting the correct "mix" of bacterial strains, and hunting through all of the possible media and chemical combinations would be time consuming and expensive. JMO. If you do start experimenting with "parallel" zeolite-bacterioplankton filtration configurations, please consider posting what happens. I know I ... and perhaps others ... would very much appreciate seeing your results.

read threads on the vodka method or invest in good equipment like this tank so you dont have to add countless additives.
tank

cetled ... many thanks for the link to Morten Nordby's January 2006 TOTM. Impressive system ... SWEET! Just goes to show that there's more than one way to skin an Acropora. Investing in good equipment is ALWAYS sound counsel ... especially if you're going to pursue the sterilizer, ozonizer, controller, kalk reactor, kalk stirrer, and dosing pump configuration that Mr. Nordby has. At the risk of being redundant ... spectacular system! JMO.

Is this "hobby" way cool, or what ...

... the ZEOvit & volka method are only similar in that both are bacterial driven, & that's where the similarity ends.

Indeed. Focusing on the creation and maintenance of an oligotrophic environment ... and setting the coral growth/coloration nutrient and food "additive issue" aside for a moment ... it's always seemed to me that the bacterioplankton reactor (zeoreactor) component of the ZEOvit methodology facilitates processes that the "vodka method" does not. After all, if it was as simple as merely adding a carbon source to an established Berlin-style system ... well ... I'd have done that a long time ago and called it a day.

... We as users can't really advice you on what to use as a replacement for each of these products since we don't have any idea what they contain.

Indeed. In terms of the specifics, I agree entirely.


And yet, it seems to me that in a "general" sense (only) ... we actually do have a good idea regarding what we're introducing into our systems. Consider ...

ZEOvit media (a natural zeolite which adsorbs NH4);
ZeoBak (a liquid solution containing several bacterial strains);
ZeoFood7 (a liquid cotaining a carbon source, amino acids, and vitamins);
ZeoStart2 (a liquid carbon source).


Maybe I'm being obtuse and self-delusionary here, but I find nothing particularly adventurous or risky about introducing an adsorptive zeolite, carbon sources, amino acids, and vitamins into my marine ecosystem ...

... ...



... but I do find the lack of specificity to be annoying ...


JMO ... HTH

[cetled]

The carbon sources are different in ZEOvit vs. volka

Yes but similiar, you could use ethanol, isoproponol, etc,
Zeofood targets nh4 and po4 bacteria vs Vodka which is used by all bacteria even the bad ones.

The good thing about zeovit is that it has instructions which have changed with trial and error.
Vodka etc, does not have clear instructions as no money can be made from it.
Also using vodka it is best used by experiance reefers who can notice the changes in the tank so dosing can be reduced.

ZEOvit media (a natural zeolite which adsorbs Nh4);

Does it adsorb NH4??? Most articles i read say it does not do much in seawater.

volka can be extremely dangerous with no controlled, repeatable dosing

Like anything it will be dangerous if you overdose, trying overdosing on zeofood 7 and see what happens.
I dose ethonal and as yet have not had any problems. Problems normally happen if po4 & n03 get too low.

Most ZEOvit tanks have stunning coral colors & growth.;most volka tanks pale in comparison in coral color

It comes down to the skill of the hobbyist. We have a few people that use Zeovit in NZ and only 2-3 tank look good the rest are pretty average. Dosing bottles of additives/supplements does not guarantee success.

[cetled]

We as users can't really advice you on what to use as a replacement for each of these products since we don't have any idea what they contain

I dont really think that it is important to know what they contain, it is more the principal how they work. Just like carbon. you get some good carbon and some cheap carbon. both work but one is better .

Zeolite
many available now, what does it do , who knows but it does clear your water in the tank after a day.
Actually some hobbyist dont even use it with zeovit and the system still works.

bactaria
You could use biodigest from france to introduce N03 bacteria. i am surprised it has not hit the states.
prodibio

Food.
Carbon source, vodka, ethonal,etc.

There you have it a new system Tivoez. Anyone want to market it.

[Aged Salt]

I dont really think that it is important to know what they contain, it is more the principal how they work

Hi Alois, I agree. You're correct also in that there are some ZEOvit copycats on the market place, however, I know no one using those products in the USA, Bob

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

Does it adsorb NH4???

Sure ... but since the specific identities of the zeolites in ZEOvit media are as yet unknown, let me run through the premises of my assertion. Apologies if I appear to be lecturing ...

... old habits are hard to break ...

Premise #1
I believe the labeling on my bag of ZEOvit media ... so I also believe that I'm talking about a combination of natural zeolites.

Premise #2
Given premise #1, I'm talking about a member of class silicates, subclass tectosilicates, group zeolites, zeolite family heulandite. I believe it to be either a clinoptiolite (hydrated sodium potassium calcium aluminum silicate), or a heulandite (hydrated sodium calcium aluminum silicate) ... or both.

Premise #3
Given premise #2, I'm talking about an alumino-silicate. Alumino-silicates have some well understood properties. Among them are :

The alumino-silicate structure is negatively charged and attracts the positive cations that reside within. Unlike most other tectosilicates, zeolites have large vacant spaces or cages in their structures that allow space for large cations such as sodium, potassium, barium and calcium and even relatively large molecules and cation groups such as water, ammonia, carbonate ions and nitrate ions.

Extracted from:
http://mineral.galleries.com/mineral...e/zeolites.htm

Premise #4
I believe these descriptions of adsorption ...

If any compound, solid, liquid or gas, is loosely held by weak attraction to the surface of a solid it is said to have undergone adsorption. This process is much weaker and less permanent than absorption.

Extracted from:
www.ch.ic.ac.uk/vchemlib/mol/glossary/

... and ...

The simplest form of adsorption, physisorption, is due to weak forces of attraction, typically Van der Waals forces (also known as dispersion forces).

Extracted from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsorption

So I'm talking about a media with a negatively charged surface immersed in an ionic solution (saltwater). The saltwater in our systems contains numerous cations, among them NH4. Given a random distribution of NH4 molecules in a water column that is being pumped through a chamber containing ZEOvit media, it seems reasonable to me to assert that the adsorption of NH4 molecules ... for a limited time at least ... is taking place on the surface of ZEOvit media. I'm not saying that NH4 molecules are the only thing being adsorbed. Indeed, I believe that Ca, Mg, Sr ... among other cations ... are also being adsorbed (perhaps even to the exclusion of NH4 over time). Please note that I'm not talking about either absorption, or ionic exchange ... these are different mechanisms.

Granted ... there's a lot of "I believe" stuff in all this. I make no claim of an empirical conclusion ... and my logic flow isn't even in the same universe as "scientific certainty." But the logic is coherent ... I hope ... and the assertion would explain some of the water parameter behavior that I've observed in my zeo-systems.


JMO ... HTH

[Orion76]

Isn't everyone always so nice on here

Gotta love seeing an expert dispense wisdom on one board and beg for help to make his browned out corals color up on another board

[Heinz]

Isn't everyone always so nice on here

Gotta love seeing an expert dispense wisdom on one board and beg for help to make his browned out corals color up on another board

i take it, you are talking about cetled/Alois ?

[Orion76]

i take it, you are talking about cetled/Alois ?

If the shoe fits you can't acquit

[Aged Salt]

Ahh Gary is pulling out a old chemistry friend with the "Van der Waals forces" Bob