Looking to add another Tang...Advice needed

[ReefRockerLive]

I have a 75g SPS tank with the following fish:

1x 1.75" Yellow Belly Hippo
1x 2" Cuvier Tang
1x 2.5" Yellow Casio Wrasse
2x (1.5")(Slightly Larger) Ocellaris Clowns
1x 2.75" Unknown Anthias


I am looking for a small 2" tang to add to my tank.

I was looking at either the *Juv. Orange Shoulder Tang* or...

What are my choices?

I have the Deltec AP600 as a skimmer and it removes a good amount of skimmate.

My tank is not stuffed with rock, it's a little more than half way up the tank.

Thanks

[nyfireman3097]

orange shoulders are very nice Have them at the store i love kole tangs when they adapt to your system there colors and designs on there bodies are beautiful

[ReefRockerLive]

Would a very small(1.5-2") Orange Shoulder Tang be okay with the fish in my tank? I was looking at the kole tang too, but how do their colors look when they adapt to a system?

Nick, would you be able to should be a pic of the kole tang in your system?

Thanks

[nyfireman3097]

i will try its hard there quick my honest opinion is to stay away from the tangs they really should be in at least a 6 foot tank but it is your tank aksi PM sent

[Orion76]

I'm calling the tang police on you

Seriously, 3 tangs in a 75 gallon is probably not a very good idea. Small tangs don't stay small forever and bigger tangs don't take too kindly to fish that compete for algae. JMO

[ReefRockerLive]

I'm calling the tang police on you

Lol...good one!

What's the fine for having 3 tangs in a "small" tank?

I've been thinking of removing the Cuvier Tang since it doesn't really catch my eye. Does that fish have a juv. and adult form?

If I take him out and put the orange shoulder tang in his place would I have the possible same bio-load that I have now?

[nbd13]

I personally would not put that big of tang in a 75. The orange shouldr gets HUG, i mean 18+". They really need a huge tank to be happy. They grow pretty fast also, so i would shy away from that tang.

I wont even put a "Naso" type tang in a 6 foot tank i think they need atleast 8 feet to be happy.

Then again its your tank, so add what fish you like, but think in terms of the fish. will it be happy in a 75. short answer is no.

Nick

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

... I've been thinking of removing the Cuvier Tang since it doesn't really catch my eye. Does that fish have a juv. and adult form?

While there is a deepening of colors as this species matures, there's no radical morphing.

Here's the fishbase.org link for Cuvier's Surgeonfish (Acanthurus xanthopterus) ... LINK.


JMO ... HTH

[VegasMike]

I echo what others are saying, stay away from Tangs in a smaller tank (6' and under). I have a Blonde Naso, a Regal Blue, a Powder Blue, a purple and a Dussemers tang in my tank (8'x3'x32"). They are doing well, but I wish I had not added the Dussemers as it has grown rather large, rather quickly. It is along the same shape and type as the Orange Shoulder, so I would avoid them if I were you. The tangs that seem to grow slower and be smaller like the Yellows and purples would be a better fit.

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

I echo what others are saying, stay away from Tangs in a smaller tank (6' and under). I have a Blonde Naso, a Regal Blue, a Powder Blue, a purple and a Dussemers tang in my tank (8'x3'x32"). They are doing well, but I wish I had not added the Dussemers as it has grown rather large, rather quickly. It is along the same shape and type as the Orange Shoulder, so I would avoid them if I were you. The tangs that seem to grow slower and be smaller like the Yellows and purples would be a better fit.

Indeed.

If size is the issue, then specimens from genus Zebrasoma and genus Ctenochaetus are your best bet ... their adult size is generally significantly smaller than specimens from either genus Acanthurus, or genus Naso.


JMO ... HTH

[GTR]

Since this is about tangs...

On fishbase the list "Scientific Name" for Zebrasoma scopas and Zebrasoma supraalba but under "Valid Name" it shows both as being Zebrasoma scopas. Both carry the common name "Twotone tang". Never heard that, only scopas but that's not the point.

Is this just a case where maybe a new species was named at some point and later the two where found to be the same species with just a color morph difference? What detirmines if it's a different species?

SteveU

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

Warning ... ... mesocosm ranting about to engage ...

Since this is about tangs...

On fishbase the list "Scientific Name" for Zebrasoma scopas and Zebrasoma supraalba but under "Valid Name" it shows both as being Zebrasoma scopas. Both carry the common name "Twotone tang". Never heard that, only scopas but that's not the point. ...

Oh my, but it's worse ... seriously worse ... than that. If you look under the "common names" link for Zebrasoma scopas ... HERE ... you get these ... all common and venacular names for a "scopas tang" which may appear in the literature (although not much of the venacular commonly appears):

Bit (New Caledonia), Blue-lined tang (Papua New Guinea), Bluelined sailfin tang (USA), Bobona (Solomon Is.), Bouc (Mauritius), Brown saiffin tang (Viet Nam), Brown sailfish surgeonfish (Mauritius), Brown sailing tang (Indonesia), Brown tang (Christmas I.), Brown tang (Niue), Brown tang (Micronesia), Brown tang (USA)Brushtail tang (Australia), Brushtail tang (Solomon Is.), Brushtail tang (Micronesia), Burung laut (Indonesia, Malay), Canivete bicolor (Mozambique), Chirurgien à balai (New Caledonia), Chirurgien à brosses (Maldives), Chirurgien à brosses (Mauritius), Chirurgien à robe sombre (Fr Polynesia), Chirurgien brun (Mauritius), Debam (Malaysia), Dengkis (Malaysia), Gomahagi (Japan), Hugupau chokolati (N Marianas), Ligapwarig (Micronesia), Mokoraa (Fr Polynesia), Pe'ape'a (Samoa), Peretiti (Tahiti), Peretti (Tahiti),Pitopito (Samoa), Røgfarvet kirurgfisk (Denmark), Tweekleur-tang (South Africa), Twotone tang (Viet Nam), Twotone tang (South Africa), Twotone tang (UK),Twotone tang (USA), Yellow sailfin tang (Sri Lanka).

... but you're right, that's not the point. I point this out as someone who took about 6 months to figure out where in the heck wholersalers were getting their specimens' "names" from ... think "source location."

Anyway ...

... Is this just a case where maybe a new species was named at some point and later the two where found to be the same species with just a color morph difference? ...

Not so much with tangs, but definitely with angelfishes. In this specific case, we're talking about history and process.

In terms of history ...

The International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature (http://www.iczn.org/) is the "keeper" of international zoological nomenclature. It was founded at the Natural History Museum in London, in 1895. Prior to the formation of the ICZN, there was no organizing body and biologists pretty much published what they pleased ... pretty much. Taxonomic nomenclature "inconsistencies" transcend back through the timeline of Human history past Linneaus (a relative newcomer), back to Aristotle. Aristotle ... we're talking the Historia Animalium written around 343 BC (LINK).

More specifically with regards to your question ... consider this sequence ...
Systema Naturae (Linneaus, 1758)
Zebrasoma scopas (Cuvier, 1829)
Formation of the ICZN (1895)
Zebrasoma supraalba (Fowler, 1946)

At some point, the secretariat of the ICZN decided it "liked" Zebrasoma scopas "better." Hardly surprising ... they give deference to "priority of publication." Indeed, Linnaeus' Systema Naturae (1758) is their "starting point." Zebrasoma scopas was published first, hence its "valid" status.

Current developments in the realms of phylogenetic systematics, cladistics, phenetics (numerical taxonomy), bioinformatics, and molecular systematics MUST be driving the ICZN nuts ...

...


In terms of process ...

Most current textbooks are transitioning away from classical Linnean taxonomy towards systems which emphasize evolutionary relationships (cladistics). More comprehensive codes ... the Biocode and the Phylocode ... are currently being developed, but they are not currently implemented. Taxonomic standards are undergoing constant "revision" ... if you thought the rhetorical savagery and carnage of the DSB vs. BB, or ZEOvit "Flame Wars" on RC was entertaining, you should attend a taxonomic convention sometime.

Those folks are serious about this stuff ... :destroy:

... What determines if it's a different species?

SteveU

In the general sense, "... Modern classification has its roots in the system of Carolus Linnaeus, who grouped species according to shared physical characteristics. These groupings have been revised since Linnaeus to improve consistency with the Darwinian principle of common descent. Molecular systematics, which uses genomic DNA analysis, has driven many recent revisions and is likely to continue to do so (LINK)."

More specifically, a determination of species is made by applying the standards set forth in the Code of International Zoological Nomenclature.

On-line ICZN Code of International Zoological Nomenclature (4th Edition),
adapted by the International Union of Biological Sciences (effective 1-1-2000).


Now that you're ... :destroy: ... for more information, you might consider these:


Overview of Scientific Classification

Overview of nomenclature Codes

Phylogenetics (aka Phylogenetic systematics ... emphasizes phylogeny).

Cladistics (emphasizes evolutionary relationships).

Phenetics (aka numerical taxonomy ... emphasizes overall similarity, regardless of phylogeny or evolutionary relationship).



I now return you to your regularly scheduled "Looking to add another Tang ... Advice needed" thread, already in progress ...


Just trying to fill in the data set ... ... hehe ...

[GTR]

I now return you to your regularly scheduled "Looking to add another Tang ... Advice needed" thread, already in progress ...

Gary... thanks for the info and the my weekend links!... No really!
It's sad and as Bob might say I do have to much time on my hands.

SteveU