C-V and Phosphate problem

[wasp]

Prior to using C-V, phosphate levels were lowish, I was targeting a Hanna reading between 0.02 and 0.04. Gradually have been reducing start dosing as the tank is cleaning up, to maintain this level.
But since starting C-V, phosphate has dropped through the floor. It now reads 0.00 Hanna, and this despite stopping start entirely. My suspicion is that C-V is providing vital nutrients to assist bacteria remove even more phosphate, despite the absense of start.
The concern is that on some millies and one acro, there is now a thinning of tissue at the base. Not actual TN as yet, but a thinning that I'm worried may become TN. Just think this may be due to lack of phosphate.
Other params are same as always, nitrate 0.00, calcium 420 -440, alkalinity 7.5, magnesium around 1400.
There has been quite a growth spurt when starting C-V, which has slowed somewhat but still pretty quick growth.
I've been feeding the fish heavily to try to increase phosphate but hasn't worked. Should I try to raise it artificially by direct dosing?
Any thoughts / opinions welcome. Anybody else having the same thing?

[mshur]

interesting observation..and i have notice the same thing...specially on my blue milli...
what i am doing this week..is adding two extra drops of aahc..and i redudce amount of c-v.. see what happend..
i also notice that color got a little lighter...

mike

[gqjeff]

Hmmm I have not noticed either of these signs and I have been dosing for 6-8 weeks at 2 drops per 25 gallons... My millis are looking awesome and my po4 has not swayed either way.. Still .02 hanna with weekly checking.. Adding .15ml a day to my net 200 also of start2... Maybe Bob can chim in and Alexander.. Bob has been dosing for 3 months or so and Alexander I think even longer...

Jeff

[CAReefer]

Jeff, after looking through your gallery, I see you don't have any trouble keeping the colors on your corals at .02 P04. Have you noticed any adverse affects at this level? I too (so as not to sidetrack the thread too far) have been dosing the C-V for about 2 weeks, P04 has remained consistant at .02 using 1 drop daily of the Start2 into 340 net gallons.

[gqjeff]

Marshall, I have not noticed any advers effects and was going to stop start2 for a week to see if my PO4 raises at all.. I had some of my LR that was 7-8 yrs old when I started the tank 1 yr ago.. I had A LOT of detritus trapped in the rock and it took a good while to finally get my PO4 down.. I took it very slowly though as with this sytem thats the only way for success... My corals were starting to get a little washed out before the addition of CV but still had decent color... I have had great success all the way around with zeovit but I hate to say that as I am prob dooming myself now for failure.. Anyways no adverse effects with the hanna that low and it has become a must for the serious reefkeeper and the zeo methed.. I actually have used it to tailor my dosing of start2.. I was dosing .6ml a day when I first got it and was at .01 hanna. I also attribute the washed out look to that low reading too.. I do have 6 large tangs and 3 chromis 4 wrasses and 2 madarines. I feed a 4*8 sheet of nori daily too.. I had a friend who never feed his sps tank and his corals were ALWAYS washed out.. I have always been an advocate of feeding the fish but did cut down for a time.. Now I am back to normal and my corals seemed to be better then ever.. I also feed brine 1x weekly to my 2 true percs and a pinch of cyclopeze...

Peace, Jeff

[G.Alexander]

Used it in the different “experimental” versions for about 6 month and since about 4 moth the product which is available now. Have not observed a PO4 drop which can be measured by the tests. While corals grow, they also absorb nutrients, PO4 for example. Maybe this is why a PO4 drop can be observed. Alastair, as you have noticed weaker growth after the growth spurt, while corals absorb a lot of elements from the water column, I speculate higher water changes could be helpful to bring back stronger growth again. Maybe only some elements are low in concentration which could show this effect.

G.Alexander

[Aged Salt]

My impression is that both the corals & the bacteria are utilizing C-V, albeit increased coral growth & a change in the color of the mulm, which has become a lighter tan color. My Hanna before starting C-V was.02 & w/o changing my zeo-basic four dosages has been steadily .00 with improved coral color. I attributed this improvement to lower P04's + I have been dosing more quantities of the zeo-supplements w/o excess signs that I noted before with those higher doses. I make 6% WC's & do these by performing three-2% siphonings/wk. Bob

[wasp]

OK thanks all for that. It may well be that the increased growth has used up phosphate reserves. I'm dosing C-V at 1 1/2 drops per 25 gallons, I'll increase this to 2 drops, and see if there is a good effect.
I'm also going to swap to some higher phosphate fish foods such as some of our local shellfish, at least temporarily.

[mshur]

bob,
why do u think my colors got a little lighter and pale?
my po4 reading is 0,05 (hanna)..hm..i did change carbon 4 days ago..maybe this caused color shift

mike

[Aged Salt]

Hi Mike, I experienced lightening of my SPS's about 4 mos. ago, when my Hanna's were .04-.05. At that time I was using a combination of Oceanic-IO salts to help stablize my parameters, which I'm still using. I changed-out & raised my MH bulbs, reduced my quantities of carbon & zeolites[33.3%], changed to K-Z carbon, & reduced the zeo-filter flow rate 25%. I did not change my basic-four dosages. Within 2 wks. coral coloration improved. At this time my Hanna's were .02. A few wks. later, I began beta C-V with immediate improvement in growth & color & surprisely lower P04's--.00[which I chronicled on other posts]. Since then my Hanna's have remained consistently .00. I have not ever noticed a color change from increased or decreased fish-feedings. I have markedly increased PIF, Fe, SpurME & AAHC for the past 2 months, which I attribute along with lower nutrients to great colors. This past wk. I begun K-Balance, & while I realize it's too soon to tell, I believe my blues/purples & reds are somewhat stronger. HTH, Bob

[wasp]

reduced my quantities of carbon & zeolites[33.3%],

Do you mean you are only running 33.3% of recommended quantity?

[Aged Salt]

Alastair, yes, plus flow reduction. After one reaches Phase 3, I believe less quantities of zeolites & carbon along with less flow are necessary to prevent/correct coral color fade. Also in many cases of Phase 3 color-fade, less zeo-dosages may be required, while increased zeo-supplements quantities can be used w/o side-effects to the benefit of our corals. Bob

[wasp]

Thanks, yes I think it is time for me to do that. I may reduce 50% at next change & see what happens.

[mshur]

bob,
since i start my new tank ( 3 month ago) i am using tropic marine pro-reef salt,with stable parameters..
alk-7.8-8.0
ca-400-425
mg-1250-1300
do u really think i should continue with the same dosing? but,i am stil in the phase -1

mike

[Aged Salt]

Mike, YHPM Bob