Short Term Ozone Use

[Marc Daniels]

Since it's going to be a couple weeks for me to dial in my CA reactor, I can't start zeo. But, I have started dosing AAHC and C-V. Is it okay for me to continue running my ozone wit thhe AAHC abd C-V. I know I have to stop it once I start the zeo program, but just wondering if it would affect these two products.

Marc

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

Since it's going to be a couple weeks for me to dial in my CA reactor, I can't start zeo. But, I have started dosing AAHC and C-V. Is it okay for me to continue running my ozone wit thhe AAHC abd C-V. I know I have to stop it once I start the zeo program, but just wondering if it would affect these two products.

Marc

What's up Marc?

It's not that you can't use ozone prior to beginning the ZEOvit methodology ... it's that the ozone is doing two things: (1) O3 oxidizes amino acids ... and proteins in general; and (2) O3 tears apart cell membranes ... lots of proteins in cellular membranes (along with lots of sugars).

Given that AAHC and C-V are amino acid based products, O3 will have the "apparent effect" of "lowering the dosage", i.e., some of the AAHC and C-V will have been degraded prior to their delivery to any specimens.

It terms of destroying bacterial cell membranes, again, no worries in the pre-ZEO system, but I would suggest discontinuation of O3 a minimum of 24 hours prior to the introduction/application of the ZEOvit media, ZeoBak, and ZeoFood.


While you're not going to find a whole lot of E. coli and Bovine serum albumin in your system ... I hope ... hehe ... here's an abstract describing the kinds of oxidation cascades that are taking place between ozone and amino acids ...

Comparison of the effects of ozone on the modification of amino acid residues in glutamine synthetase and bovine serum albumin.
Abstract



Not that you need this ... just to specify what's going on with ozone and bacteria ... just for the record.

Ozone antiseptic action is note from a long time. Such property is due to the direct contact with micro-organisms, witch determine the capsule destruction following oxidant process caused by gas and/or per-oxide. Mechanism is similar to the one who organism use with the oxidant substance aside leukocytes turn into bacterial phagocytosis. Destructive action is due to ozone affinity with capsule lipoproteic components and insufficient bacterial cell defence capacity from the ozone oxidation. ... Bacteria demonstrate a different sensibility to ozone: Gram-negative are less sensible than Gram-positive and sporygens bacteria are more resistant than non-sporygens.

Article

JMO ... HTH

[Aged Salt]

Tasty bits of stimulationg information as per your usual, Gary,thnx. Just to clarify a point in your post above, C-V does not contain aminoacids in it's composition--it is a coralfood without a nutrient source for our corals, but would also be degraded quickly by O3, rendering it ineffective, Bob

[Marc Daniels]

Bob/Gary-

Okay, I was tweaking my CA reactor/skimmer/ozone this morning and a thought popped into my head. A lot of aquarists are under the impression that a "protein" skimmer only removes proteins. But as we all know a skimmer will remove much more than just proteins. My ASM G4 is very good at removing small particulates like that dark silty detritus that builds up under the rockwork, etc.

So, HCAA...amino acids are a type of protein that would be removed by the skimmer...as well the "solid" component of C-V would be removed. Yes?

Marc

[Aged Salt]

Yes, protein fractionationers will eventually remove AAHC from the water as will the zeolite-bacteria filter which is enriched by AAHC & C-V & in the process to become nourishment for our corals, as particle food, mulm, & liquid-plankton. The bacteria-N-P-complex apparently becomes more skimmable for export by our protein skimmers reducing the nutrients in our system & at the same time keeping our corals healthy. Bob

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

... Just to clarify a point in your post above, C-V does not contain aminoacids in it's composition--it is a coralfood without a nutrient source for our corals, but would also be degraded quickly by O3, rendering it ineffective, Bob

Ooops! ... ... my bad ...



Sorry 'bout that, folks.

[Marc Daniels]

Bob-

"it is a coralfood without a nutrient source for our corals"

Can you please explain that...if it's not a nutrient source...of any kind...why would our corals feed upon it at all?

Marc

[Aged Salt]

Marc, you had to pick one of my worse sentences ever. C-V is not nitrogen-based & will not increase N's & P's[not a nutrient source to our aquarium] in our system. Bob

[reeftec]

So, HCAA...amino acids are a type of protein that would be removed by the skimmer...as well the "solid" component of C-V would be removed. Yes?

Marc

amino acids are not atype of proteins,they are proteins building blocs

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

amino acids are not atype of proteins,they are proteins building blocs

Excellent opening ... I can't resist ...


As is typical, the precision of a definition for a term such as "amino acid" is important ...

Any of a class of nitrogen-containing acids. Some 20 amino acids are commonly found in animals and humans. Chains of amino acids synthesized by living systems are called polypeptides (up to about 50 amino acids) and proteins (more than 50 amino acids).

source

The basic building block of protein. All amino acids contain an amino (NH 2 ) end, a carboxyl end (COOH) and a side group (R). In proteins, amino acids are joined together when the NH 2 group of one forms a bond with the COOH group of the adjacent amino acid. The side group is what distinguishes each of the amino acids from the others.

source

Amino Acid: Small organic molecule containing both a carboxyl group and an amino group bonded to the same carbon atom. For example: histamine ; serotonine ; epinephrine ; norepinephrine .

Peptide: A molecule formed by joining two or more amino acids . For example, ECF.

Polypeptide: Many peptides joined together. For example, insulin .

Protein: A molecule composed of many amino acids and with a complex structure. For example, immunoglobulin , casein.

Glycoprotein: A protein coated with sugars

source

Building block of proteins and enzymes. Dietary proteins need to be broken into their amino acid components before they can be used by the body.

source

Only two more ... please bear with me ... there is actually a point to be made in a moment ...

Definition of Food:

...any substance that can be metabolized by an organism to give energy and build tissue.
... Food is any substance consumed by living organisms, including liquid drinks. Food is the main source of energy and of nutrition for animals, and is usually of animal or plant origin.
... substances that provide carbohydrates, lipids, and proteins as an energy source to organisms.

source

And ...

Definition of Nutrient:

... chemical compound (such as protein, fat, carbohydrate, vitamins, or minerals) that make up foods.
... Compounds in foods which are essential for life. Nutrients include protein, fats, vitamins, minerals, etc.
... Molecules that can be used by cells or living organism to extract energy through metabolic processes. Although nutrients are often thought of only as energy providers, they can also be used as molecular building block for the biosynthesis of cellular structures.
... substance that provides food or nourishment, such as usable proteins, vitamins, minerals or carbohydrates.

source

The point: While irritating, and oftentimes apparently trivial, the distinctions DO matter, especially if we're engaged in the "shaking of the black box" investigation of chemically unspecified components of zeoproducts ... JMO. Strange as it seems ... to me at least ... from a definitional context, something can in fact be a "nutrient" without being a "food," ... and something can be a "food" without containing either N or P. Granted, this flies in the face of "common" useage of the terminology ... as is often the case with applied science.

But we're not talking about a "common" system or product line ...are we? ...

Can you please explain that...if it's not a nutrient source...of any kind...

"... of any kind ... ?" Judging by the observations of users, C-V is presumptively a nutrient of some kind ... JMO, FWIW. Of a kind with N and P components? ... not necessarily. Fatty acids, lipids and carbohydrates leap to mind ... all of which are nutrients, none of which will increase either N or P concentrations in our systems ... and all of which can be oxidized by ozone.

I just wish that the marketing was more precise ...

...why would our corals feed upon it at all?

To provide energy for cellular metabolism.



JMO ... HTH

[Marc Daniels]

Thank you for the science lesson, now I just need a Tylenol.

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

... now I just need a Tylenol.

I seem to be causing that effect alot lately ... :destroy: