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ZEO products and STN / RTN

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  • ZEO products and STN / RTN

    Hi there guys, I was wondering if you can help me understand this a little more.

    While ZEOvit is a unbelievable solution to the kind of results we are aiming for, it is still a very much hands on observation method in order to obtain the correct results.

    While the guidelines are fantastic, they are very much what they say they are, GUIDELINES!

    As all our tanks have there own individual personalities and therefore required individual dosing regimes. And it is throe trial and error that we are able to find the dosing that we need for our own specific tanks.

    What I would like to try find out is which of the ZEO products are the main causes for STN or RTN to occur.
    I know that there are many factor to this scenario, ( reducing nutrients to quickly, light parameter changes, incorrect parameters, to little flow, stressed coral etc etc)

    However should all parameters be in line and everything on the system to be correct ( no phosphate removers, right flow through reactor, correct carbon dosage and method etc etc) And should STN and RTN still occur in our tanks what would be the main culprit in the ZEO range ?

    So this is kind of a 2 part question, should this STN or RTN occur on our corals what products would you reduce dosing :

    Firstly out of our of the basic supplements ( start, BAK, Food media), and secondly out of the more advanced range ( spur, etc )


    Christiaan :biggthump
    Last edited by Funkyskunk; 09-29-2005, 04:20 AM.

  • #2
    I have never had any problems regarding this and have been using zeovit for around 3 years. When i started using it there was no instructions in English either, just in German. I think if people are using a new product and something happens in the aquarium, they will blame the new product without looking further into it. There alot of factors that can cause RTN or STN. Either that, or they go nuts and want results in 24 hours so they just dose what they want to But if you did that with anything you can run into troubles, even so called safe elements like calcium.
    Oh, and sorry we bet you guys in the rugby

    Brendan Zeovit New Zealand Australia


    • #3
      Hi Christiaan, well-posed question, Extreme oligotrophic conditions could deplete the absorptive energy pathways for our corals resulting in tissue recession. Answering your question directly, heavy excess of Bak, Food or Start2 eventually could result in this condition of possible nutrient starvation. Of course, excess of Spur2 does this, especially when our corals are zoox deficent. Still, the most likely scenario in an established reef in Phase 3 or 4 is KH swings of >1dKH, followed by temp & salinity swings & lastly, low Ca levels. In a progress reef where corals are continuing being added, then current flow & inadequate light to the coral[especially parts of the base] becomes a factor. Bob
      "There might be something to this ZEOvit"


      • #4
        Hi there Bob,

        I hope you are keeping well! Thx for the reply. I realize that should the parameters shift could cause these problems.

        But lets take the scenario of everything be perfect, no swings perfect levels ect ( in the ideal world lol )
        Should there still be tissue recession you are saying that it would be advisable to reduce dosing in all products, in exact equal quantities :

        Therefore if dosing was for example:

        Food 2 drops
        Bak 2 drops
        Start 3 ml

        To help aid tissue recession the dosing should be

        Food 1 drop
        Bak 1 Drop
        Start 1.5 ml

        So they would all contribute to the problem at exactly equal rates?

        Is there no product that contributes more to STN and RTN ?



        • #5
          When using zeovit and other products similiar to zeovit i found that the zeolite can cause problems, i found less is better as the zeolite seems to strip something from the water really quick or add too much iron


          • #6
            Alois brings up an important point I've had to reduce the quantity & flow rate of zeolites/filter in Phase 3-4. The zeolites's release of any iron is minimal, & not a factor here, o/w all we'd have is algae & brown corals. Once one reaches an oligotrophic state the doses of all zeo's[including zeolites/carbon] that got us to that point should be reduced to prevent tissue recession. It's too soon to tell but I believe the new Coral-Vitalizer will circumvent this very low-nutrient state, w/o adding nutrient to our reefs. Christiaan, your new doses look much better, although if you have a Hanna & it's <0.03 then reduce Start2 even further [0.5ml 2x's/day], Bob
            "There might be something to this ZEOvit"


            • #7
              Ok thx for the feedback, Bob that was not my dosing schedule, just and example, however with that being said, I will reduce my dosing in half.

              I am also adding iron, 2 drops once every week and a half.
              And PIF 2 drops every 2 days.

              I have noticed only a very small amount of STN on 2 corals, it is not a major concern as yet, and planned to decrease dosing anyway.
              Just wanted to try get a better understanding of STN and RTN with Zeo.

              I noticed that when I ran out of Bak a little while ago, but still dosed food and start that STN stopped, so I thought that Bak could be one of the main cause's.

              But I guess it was just that my nutrient levels must have increased.

              Must also mention that I am still using Start1, I am sure that has something to do with it as well. Waiting for a new shipment again, and will have start2 and amino’s coming my way.

              Anyway thanks for all the help !


              • #8
                Originally posted by kiwireefer
                IOh, and sorry we bet you guys in the rugby

                Brendan Zeovit New Zealand Australia

                I have to retaliate to this comment........ LOL the only reason you beat us was because you where lucky on the last second of the game, if I remember correctly it was one point!

                We hammered you in the first game, and in the second, we where just piped at the post !

                But you guys do have a great team, !! :chainsaw:


                • #9
                  Christiaan, Start1 can result in tissue-recession, usually beginning at the tips but can begin at the base in excess. Be sure to switch to Start2 & C-V[this stuff is the greatest since sliced bread]. Bob
                  "There might be something to this ZEOvit"


                  • #10
                    think if people are using a new product and something happens in the aquarium, they will blame the new product without looking further into it.
                    Just like people who rubbish the Vodka method so they can make money by selling gimmick products for the sake of it


                    • #11
                      How's your job going alois. Looking into anyone's bank accounts lately ?



                      • #12
                        Looking into anyone's bank accounts lately ?
                        Michael did have a good imagination , was a very funny theory he had and i thought he wanted it kept a secret.


                        • #13
                          Alois & Brendan, please discuss this issue via PM.



                          • #14
                            Ok thx for all the help, so just to finalize the conclusion or answer is that :

                            No Zeo product contributes more to STN/RTN than the other, and they all work in equal quantities and contribute to the problem or solution in exact equal ratio's.(in the assumtion that all parameters are stable and at correct levels)

                            Right ?


                            • #15
                              Yes, all zeo products will kill your corals


                              Brendan Zeovit NZ / Aussie