Maybe I am crazy, what about a Japanese style tank?

[mane3215]

OK guys, here is how this is. I wanted to always have an open top tank with NO bracing like the Japanese style tanks we all admire. It makes for a very clean looking tank which I love. I have asked everyone and they all seem to think I am crazy. No one wants to touch a large tank with no top bracing.

As far as I can see, for instance my tank is 50x46x30 (300g), Will is putting a 4" eurbrace around the top of it. From what I can see a eurbrace of 4" really only gives you another 8" of strength per joint, is this correct? The brace going across the length of the glass is really doing nothing for holding the joints together, just where it is contacting the other 4" brace and the opposite wall.

This is how the Japanese do their tanks. The largest that my buddy has seen like this is 67x36x28" and he is contacting the manufacturer to see how large it can safely be done. You can see in the bottom of the pic they put a small piece of glass covering the silicone. I was told the reason for this is because worms would eat at the silicone and make the tank leak (sounds kind of crazy heh), but now that they put the glass in front of the silicone, that problem is no more. He told me he knows of no tanks like this that have failed. Here is the manufacturer advertisement:





Click HERE for very high res.


Long story short, I can do this, but the tank will not have a warranty, and it is a very pricey tank. I am not so sure I want to risk it =). Is there any engineers who can figure this dilemma out?

[invincible569]

Chris, im a little confused... you said Will will put a 4" brace around the perimeter.. does this mean you are still heading in this direction or do you want to change to an ALL open top?

The reason I ask is because Miracles is doing the same for me with a perimeter on top and also on the bottom which is what you are asking for. And thats for a 450g tank. I dont think they would sell me a tank that size with an open top (perimeter only braced) if they didnt think it would work.

[mane3215]

Well so far I have not told him other wise, and we are planning ont he eurobrace. I would love to go open top though. I am however scared =)...I dont want to come home to rare fish, coral, and 300g of water on my floor. He said this morning he would be willing to do open top, but he will not warranty it. I dont know if I can afford to take the risk.


Stop rubbing it in that your tank is larger!

[invincible569]

Well so far I have not told him other wise, and we are planning ont he eurobrace. I would love to go open top though. I am however scared =)...I dont want to come home to rare fish, coral, and 300g of water on my floor. He said this morning he would be willing to do open top, but he will not warranty it. I dont know if I can afford to take the risk.


Stop rubbing it in that your tank is larger!

im not. I just wanted you to be reassured that even with a larger size, that would be ok. Now, taking off the perimeter is a whole different story. Do some more research on the Japanese tanks. Im sure you can find something. At home, I have a Japanese webstie that makes TONS of glass tanks.. I will post once I find it.

[o2manyfish]

The purpose of the bracing is to minimize the ability of the panels to flex. When the panels flex it changes the pressures on the edges, minimizing contact points which can allow the joints to fail.

So it's the the width of the bracing, its the strength to keep the panels from flexing.

Another item which no one has discussed, is that it may be that thanks to our prophylactic (sp?) loving society. Other countries may have adhesives that are much stronger than what is allowed here in the states.

I know that with the tank builders here in the states they can assemble a tank and ship it pretty quickly.

However, one of the European tank builders uses a silicone for the glass, that for every mm (or maybe micrometer) of thickness it takes almost a week to cure. For one large tank they built the cure time for the tank was 6-8 weeks - That's before the tank could be touched.

Dave B

[mane3215]

The purpose of the bracing is to minimize the ability of the panels to flex. When the panels flex it changes the pressures on the edges, minimizing contact points which can allow the joints to fail.

So it's the the width of the bracing, its the strength to keep the panels from flexing.

Another item which no one has discussed, is that it may be that thanks to our prophylactic (sp?) loving society. Other countries may have adhesives that are much stronger than what is allowed here in the states.

I know that with the tank builders here in the states they can assemble a tank and ship it pretty quickly.

However, one of the European tank builders uses a silicone for the glass, that for every mm (or maybe micrometer) of thickness it takes almost a week to cure. For one large tank they built the cure time for the tank was 6-8 weeks - That's before the tank could be touched.

Dave B

Doh! Forgot all about the panel flexing! Also forgot to add a VERY IMPORTANT fact...they use tempered glass!

My buddy told me its just standard silicone that they use to build, but your right its possible it may be stronger, I will have to ask some more details. Hell, I am just gonna have them build and ship me one =P

[mane3215]

> How is this possible?
これらのタンクは強化ガラスと硬質シリコンで組まれている。
These tanks are being put with the tempered glass and the hard silicone together.

> Do they ever break or leak?
初期の頃、シリコンがミミズに食べられた。
Early time, silicone was eaten by an worm.

そして、水が漏れた。
Then, water leaked out.

現在は、シリコンに保護の板が付けられた。
At present, the board of the protection was put on the silicone.

そして、問題は無くなった。
Then, a problem disappeared.

> How large do the Japanese tanks actually get without any kind of bracing?
私は１８００ｘ９００ｘ７００のタンクを見たことがある。
I have ever seen the tank of 1800x900x700[mm].

[o2manyfish]

The only thing that catches my eyes is 'standard silicone' --

There are literally dozens if not 100's of variations for silicone - Goto your local boating store and you can find probably 15 different types of silicone. And that doesn't include any of the commercial silicone adhesives.

The other thing to consider, is we are really cheap basturds for the most part. We see a 60g glass tank available at the LFS for 49 bucks.

How many people are going to spend $1500 for a 60g glass tank to be made with tempered, low iron glass ?

I toss out $1500 as an example - but it would not surprise me.

Dave B

[mane3215]

I hear that.....I need to find which they use.

I will pay for it =), I just want it to be done right and safe. But you are very right for as expensive as this hobby is, there are a lot of cheapies running around =)!

[invincible569]

good points dave.

chris, get one shipped from japan.

[mane3215]

good points dave.

chris, get one shipped from japan.

Thought about that, but I already have my money tied up with Will, not to mention it would probably be prohibitively expensive.

[tonkadawg]

while the concept of the an open top with out bracing is very cool, I wouldn't risk it. I think you would be a pioneer here in the states and that's an honor I would rather leave to someone else in this situation

[Miguelito]

Wait Dave B! Are you saying Americans are overly litigious (from another thread), impatient and want more for less (although usually ending up with less for less)? No way! Next thing you know, you'll be saying we're prude, sexually repressed and the first ones to take flash photos in the Louvre! Oh wait ...

- David (a prophylactic loving American)

[invincible569]

here it is mane.. tons of tanks to choose from. Email them.

http://www.suiso.jp/

[TJcop]

Thought about that, but I already have my money tied up with Will, not to mention it would probably be prohibitively expensive.

I just checked the site that Invincible posted. For a 3000x1000x1000 tank (approx 10ftx3ftx3ft) it was 2,600,000 yen, which is $23,000 US!!!! Juuuust a bit outta my price range~