slight aiptasia problem

[Detritivore]

hi all,

in my 20 gallon, i have a few aiptasia. the problem is, they are all quite small, and most of them are in hard to reach places (behind the rocks, between corals, etc...) which make it hard for me to use joes juice or anything of that nature. any ideas as to what i should do?

TIA, tim

[fkadir]

Peppermint shrimps an option for you?

[majesticangelfish]

Peppermint shrimps

[mesocosm]

Greetings All!

hi all,

in my 20 gallon, i have a few aiptasia. the problem is, they are all quite small, and most of them are in hard to reach places (behind the rocks, between corals, etc...) which make it hard for me to use joes juice or anything of that nature. any ideas as to what i should do?

TIA, tim

Welcome to the Aiptasia Wars ... :destroy: ... :2gunsfiri .

There are three main response pathways to choose from:
(1) Physical Removal
(2) Chemical
(3) Biological

Physical Removal
Physical removal of Aiptasia from their places of attachment is only viable if you can do it outside of the display system ... so this is probably not an option for your situation. ALL of the Aiptasia must be removed from the attachment. The issue is that unremoved tissue can regenerate into a complete animal. Aiptasia reproduction/regeneration can be very problematic ...

Anemones can reproduce sexually and asexually. The latter method, termed cloning, most commonly occurs by longitudinal fission, inverse budding or marginal budding, but pedal laceration is the method used by Aiptasia (Muller-Parker, pers. comm.) Cloning is common in some anemone species and results in extensive patches of clones on reef bottoms. Cloning is considered to be adaptive in the colonization of space because clones inherit high fitness from the adjacent parent (Shick 1991, Ayre and Grosberg 1995) and because budded clones can colonize space rapidly (G. Muller-Parker, pers. comm.). Pedal laceration in Aiptasia entails very low reproductive effort (Hunter 1984), and this process also ensures that symbiotic zooxanthellae are contained in the propagules (Muller-Parker and D'Elia 1997).

Extracted from:
A NEW RECORD OF ANEMONE BARRENS IN THE GALAPAGOS
By: Thomas. A. Okey, Scoresby. A. Shepherd, and Priscilla C. Martinez
http://www.conservationinstitute.org/anemonebarrens.htm

Chemical
Chemical treatments are very effective, but you've got to be able to get at the Aiptasia. If you're unwilling to disrupt your rock structures and/or coral arrangements, then this pathway won't be very effective.

There's another, less discussed, tangent of chemical treatment: Nutrient Reduction. Bob (Aged Salt) has pointed out that the establishment and maintenance of a low nutrient (oligotrophic) environment has the potential to eradicate Aiptasia populations over time.
Hmmm ... ZEOvit methodology as an Aiptasia control strategy ... ... very cool! ...


Biological
This is perhaps the best option in your current situation. You have many choices, but the irritating thing about biological control strategies is that the Aiptasia predators that you introduce may be inconsistent and apathetic in their predation of Aiptasia. This is compounded by the possibility that some of the predators will develop a taste for something other than Aiptasia ... very annoying.

Well documented Aiptasia predators include ...

Peppermint Shrimp (as already mentioned ...): My major problem with them has been that about 1 in 12 develop a taste for polyps ... typically mushrooms and Palythoa. I've observed that Pacific specimens are typically less likely to go after polyps than Atlantic specimens ... go figure ... but opinions on this correlation differ. You pays your money, and you takes your chances ... and so it goes.

Butterfly Fishes: Butterfly fish as Aiptasia predators include Chelmon rostratus (Copperband Butterfly), Chaetodon auriga (Auriga Butterfly), and Chaetodon unimaculatus (Okey, Shepard and Martinez, 2003) ... but I've never really trusted any of them in an SPS reef tank.

Damselfishes: One of the commonly overlooked fish predator options are two damselfishes from the Genus Stegastes ... the Island Major (Stegastes arcifrons), and the Southern Whitetail Major (Stegastes beebei).

The two species of territorial damselfishes mentioned above, Stegastes leucorus beebei and S. arcifrons, are known predators of the Aiptasia anemone in the Galapagos (Grove and Lavenberg 1997, and SAS personal observations).

Extracted from:
A NEW RECORD OF ANEMONE BARRENS IN THE GALAPAGOS
By: Thomas. A. Okey, Scoresby. A. Shepherd, and Priscilla C. Martinez
http://www.conservationinstitute.org/anemonebarrens.htm

WetWebMedia has some good stuff on Genus Stegastes Damselfishes at:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stegastes.htm

Stegastes leucorus beebei is actually kind of cool looking:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/DamselPI...20Juv%20GAL.jpg



Nudibranchs: And then there's the Nudibranch option ... much has been written on the Aiptasia eating nudibranch Berghia verrucicornis. Availabilty and cost are a whole other set of issues ...

Everything you ever wanted to about culturing Berghia nudibranchs is at:
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Rep.../berghia_bb.htm





Other threads to review for further reading and opinions are:

A Funkyskunk thread:
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthr...light=aiptasia

Includes Bob's Low Nutrient Observation:
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthr...light=aiptasia

Peppermint Shrimp gone Bad:
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthr...light=aiptasia

Includes boobookitty's Super-concentrated Kalkwasser Method:
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthr...light=aiptasia


JMO ... HTH

[GTR]

Gary... thanks for the reading material. I've NEVER heard of a damsel as a possible control.

On the peppermint shrimp... I've had good luck with them in the past but only long enough for them to earn their keep and put a dent in the problem. Then it seems they just begin to disappear even though other cleaner type shrimp live on. Are some of these peppermints being collected from areas that might not make them good long term guests in our reefs (aside from eating the wrong things)?

SteveU

[fkadir]

What about using 'Joe's Juice' as a chemical treatment. I have had success in eradicating Aiptasia with that but you need physical access to them in order to squirt.

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

Gary... thanks for the reading material. I've NEVER heard of a damsel as a possible control.

SteveU

I too had never heard of it until I got lost in Wet Web Media ... yet again. The things you can stumble across before the morning caffiene kicks in ... amazing. I'm still trying to decide whether or not the "Library Research Using the Internet" courses that I've taken are a blessing ...

... or a serious curse ... ... ...

On the peppermint shrimp... I've had good luck with them in the past but only long enough for them to earn their keep and put a dent in the problem. Then it seems they just begin to disappear even though other cleaner type shrimp live on. Are some of these peppermints being collected from areas that might not make them good long term guests in our reefs (aside from eating the wrong things)?

SteveU

"Are some of these peppermints being collected from areas that might not make them good long term guests in our reefs" hits the issue right on the head ...

...


I hate discussing Peppermint shrimp ... this is one shrimp (... actually, a GROUP of shrimp, as it turns out ...) that the North American marine ornamental industry continues to "fumble" (incorrectly identify) consistently. I must admit that I too sometimes have difficulty with "ball control" ... these can be pesky beasties to properly key out, especially early in the morning looking into poorly lit wholesaler tanks.

I sometimes find myself having to ask, "Excuse me, little shrimp creature, but may I count the number of teeth on your rostrum?" ... life is strange.


It turns out that what is marketed to the North American marine hobbyist as "Peppermint Shrimp" may actually be any of three species ...

Peppermint Shrimp
Lysmata wurdemanni
Photo:http://species.fishindex.com/species...nt_shrimp.html

Peppermint Shrimp
Lysmata rathbunae
Photo: http://www.usm.maine.edu/gulfofmaine...crustacean.htm

Peppermint Shrimp
Lysmata californica
Photo: http://www.oceanlight.com/lightbox.p...ta_californica

(Side Note: Happily, people have finally figured out that Camel Shrimp are NOT Peppermint shrimp, although some online references still list them as such ...

... go figure ... ...

Camel Shrimp
Rhynchocinetes uritai
http://fins.actwin.com/species/index.php?t=9&i=301

While these guys will eat Aiptasia, they are serious coral predators as well.)


Keying can be difficult ...

L. rathbunae
Variation - There are 2 varieties of L. rathbunae with the most obvious difference being the number of rostral teeth (number of serrations on that spear).
Habitat - Sometimes from sponges; the typical from generally occurs from 13 to 119 meters but the form with more rostral teeth generally occurs in depths of 9 meters or less.
Known Range - Range of the typical form is SE Cape Fear, NC , east coast of Florida to Yucatan. The range of the form with more numerous rostral teeth is Bermuda, Miami and Venezuela.

L. wurdemanni
Variation - There are also two forms in this species and they too are most easily differentiated by the number of teeth on the upper margin of the rostrum, the thickness of the second leg, and other stuff.
Habitat - Commonly found on stone jetties or AMONG HYDROIDS growing on piles or buoys, or in sponges. The EMPHASIS is mine but it may provide a clue to the food preferences of this species.
Known Range - Great Egg Harbor NJ to Port Aransas TX; Surinam; French Guiana; Mamanguape and Sao Paulo, Brazil
Remarks - When approached by a spiny boxfish or filefish, this shrimp begins rhythmically rocking to and fro; ascending vertically in a peculiar walking motion, it mounts its ''host'' and begins picking off parasites. The shrimp will swarm over the fingers of a person, picking at cuts and dead skin.

Extracted from:
Identifying Peppermint Shrimp
By Stephen Hopkins and Keith Redfield
http://www.reefs.org/library/article..._redfield.html

From the same article ...

Lysmata rathbunae is found off eastern Florida (as opposed to the largely Carribean/Gulf L. wurdemanni). About the only external difference between the two is tail-fan patterning, and that is subtle. I have a picture of 1 of each species next to each other and in that context, the differences are quite apparent, but in an LFS it would be difficult to tell. Basically L. rathbunae has a darker tail fan, with no visible striping, and a darker, more opaque body. L. rathbunae has no interest whatsoever in Aiptasia in my experience. I am not a taxonomist, and these are my lay interpretations of readings on the subject, as well as personal experience watching both varieties (or what I think are both varieties) in my tanks.

True L. wurdemanni has always eaten Aiptasia IME, but it is fairly localized to their territory (about 1sq foot), so you need enough shrimp to cover the tank. It is reasonable to suspect that anything that will eat one Cnidarian will eat others as well, and their have been reports of L wurdemanni eating coral. I've not seen that, but I have never kept SPS much.

I believe much of the debate on their abilities is simply mis-identification (or overly well-fed shrimp -- they do not prefer Aiptasia over other more readily available foods). L. rathbunae are quite common in the trade, as they are collected in lobster traps in droves.

Extracted From:
Identifying Peppermint Shrimp
By Stephen Hopkins and Keith Redfield
http://www.reefs.org/library/article..._redfield.html

Are some of these peppermints being collected from areas that might not make them good long term guests in our reefs (aside from eating the wrong things)?

SteveU

Definitely ... around five years ago (at least IME) Lysmata californica started being offered in the trade. Wholesalers began making the distinction between "Atlantic" and "Pacific" Peppermint shrimp. Experienced customers began reporting differences in both longevity and aggressiveness. While I have had very good success with Lysmata californica as far as their Aiptasia eating habits are concerned, I've found them to be relatively short-lived (~ 4-6 months) in my systems. I suspect that this is a water temperature thing. Lysmata californica are from the Eastern Pacific region, while Lysmata wurdemanni and Lysmata rathbunae are from the Altantic region.

What about using 'Joe's Juice' as a chemical treatment. I have had success in eradicating Aiptasia with that but you need physical access to them in order to squirt.

I've found Joe's Juice, in combination with a small herd of Lysmata wurdemanni, to be extremely effective at eradicating Aiptasia outbreaks. The only inadequacy of Joe's Juice is that it can leave some pedal cells alive ... leading to another outbreak a few weeks later. The Lysmata wurdemanni clean up the Aiptasia body parts that the Joe's Juice misses. I sympathize with Detritovore completely ... Aiptasia growth in hard to reach areas of the aquascaping produces some irritating decision-making.

JMO ... HTH

[SEAREEF]

I've found Joe's Juice, in combination with a small herd of Lysmata wurdemanni, to be extremely effective at eradicating Aiptasia outbreaks. The only inadequacy of Joe's Juice is that it can leave some pedal cells alive ... leading to another outbreak a few weeks later. The Lysmata wurdemanni clean up the Aiptasia body parts that the Joe's Juice misses. I sympathize with Detritovore completely ... Aiptasia growth in hard to reach areas of the aquascaping produces some irritating decision-making.

Very smart .....If you use Joes juice by itself you will have problems with outbreaks of em every where .Alot of people sell camel shrimp as peppermint shrimp ,you can tell a camel by the hump ,when they are babies it becomes more difficult . Pepper mint shrimp and a couple of wrasses and some turbo snails has always keep my reef in tune ...

[AtlanticReef]

Berghia Nudibranchs for aiptasia anemone eradication.
"What do berghia eat?" They eat ONLY ONE THING, aiptasia anemones! Nothing else. Once your tank runs out of aiptasia, the berghia starve to death. They are completely reef safe.

[invincible569]

Berghia Nudibranchs for aiptasia anemone eradication.
"What do berghia eat?" They eat ONLY ONE THING, aiptasia anemones! Nothing else. Once your tank runs out of aiptasia, the berghia starve to death. They are completely reef safe.

Tony, you're on the money with that one. On our local forum, someone experimented with them and posted pictures of them munching on aiptasia.

http://www.marshreef.com/modules.php...ewtopic&t=9839

[mane3215]

Tony, you're on the money with that one. On our local forum, someone experimented with them and posted pictures of them munching on aiptasia.

http://www.marshreef.com/modules.php...ewtopic&t=9839

Bad thing is the dude on RC with them doubled his price, and its kind of steep to eradicate a few aiptasia's then have them kick off in your tank.

Do you guys know anywhere else to get them?

[Brion]

not that this would work for Detritivore but, I used to have a killer problem with aptasia..(and curly q's).... peppermints wouldn't do it and as ironic as it is.. peppermint shrimp will eat berghia if they find them.. (which they always have :axe: )
And good ole joes juice... aaah.. nothing.. shoot em.. they look like crap for a few days and then HEEELLLLOOOOO i'm back and bigger than ever. :cursin:

Finally i just put a Raccoon butterfly in my 125gal reef tank.. he's been there for about two months now.. he rid me of aptasia in one week.. we're talking hundreds kid's.. so i tried to catch him to take him back to the store i work at.. and you'd be shocked but he didn't want to come out .. so i left him.. hasn't bothered anything yet.. he does pick at the acros .. but i've got lots so he hasn't caused noticable damage to any of them.. I'm sure i'm jsut lucky, but until i see definate damage he can stay..

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !


I've always had a problem with the cost vs. benefit ratio of using Berghia verrucicornis for Aiptasia eradication ... but AtlanticReef makes an extremely good point (IMO). Berghia verrucicornis is an extremely effective Aiptasia predator ... when they don't get shredded by your powerheads, and when the smaller ones don't get comsumed BY the Aiptasia.

Oh yes ... predator vs. prey relationships are wonderful things ... :axe:

The only sources I know of that consistently have Berghia verrucicornis for sale are:

Coralsandbar ($16 plus shipping)
http://www.coralsandbar.com/critter.html#

Inland Aquatics ($24.99 plus shipping)
http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/tr_invert.html


HTH ...

[Detritivore]

ok, i figure for now, i'll try joes juice first, since i can get it quite easily right now. once i get the buggers to ease of a bit with the JJ, i'll try and figure out what to do with the pedal's n stuff.

boy i hate these things, but they do look kinda cool :p

[Detritivore]

hehe, seriously, i took a look at one under a microscope, and it is very cool


i know...i'm...special :spit: