Who wants to help track down a Micro Bubble problem?

[CAReefer]

Ok, tank has been running for almost 2 years now. I've always had an extremely minor Micro Bubble problem, but not enough to worry about. But in the last few weeks it has gotten considerably worse. Here are recent (month or so) changes in the order they occured.

Added external chiller plumbed with 1" flex pipe. In the pic you can see how it was plumbed with a "T" and valve for prop tank. With the T and before the prop tank was brought online, there was no increase in bubble production.


Plumbed the prop tank (approx 300 gph). The return empties into right hand sump tank which holds chaeto and zeo reactor, proceeds to main sump area through 1 1/2" bulkheads. This is about the time the increase occured and seems to get worse by the day. If I shut down the prop system with the valve, the bubbles continue. I put a filter sock on the drain from the first tank to see if that is where they are coming from but doesn't seem to make a difference.


Replaced return pump, checked all fittings from sump to pump, all are tight and appear leak free. I do have 2 unions and a ball valve in that plumbing, but no salt creep or any indication of a leak. In fact, all plumbing seems tight with only one area of salt creep and that is on top of the tank just prior to where the water returns to the tank, I disassembled, cleaned the union and retaped the threaded fitting. One, 3/4" line feeds a 1/2" SS and a 3/4" elbow straight into the tank.

The sump appears to be relatively bubble free as does the prop tank. Shutting the skimmer down doesn't change bubble production. So I would have to guess the air leak is in the return plumbing somewhere, I just can't seem to find it.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome
Thanks
Marshal

[SEAREEF]

Marshal
Might be the valve or unions

[CAReefer]

Short of replacing them, is there anyway to tell if they are the problem?

Marshal

[SEAREEF]

Ive had a bad valve and wasnt able to tell just from looking at it ,is there any salt creep around any of that are you sure that pump dont leak

[o2manyfish]

If you shut off the skimmer for a half an hour do they go away ?

Dave B

[OUinLA]

I always check the skimmer first.

[CAReefer]

Thanks all for the replies. There is no salt creep anywhere on the plumbing, and after replacing the pump, nothing has changed. I have shut off the skimmer and the prop tank simultaneously for over an hour with no change. Probably end up rebuilding all of the plumbing, I am stumped.

[Heinz]

before rebuilding all the plumbing, i would go and use duc tape on each union, one at a time and then wait 15/30min, and see if it helped, if not tape the next union, untill you found the one that is leaking/letting air in,

[Aged Salt]

Marshal, I agree with all above. My guess is either a air-leak in the plumbing or an "venturi effect" occurring within smaller pvc with too rapid a flow rate through it. Do you hear any water-pipe-sounds through your plumbing? Bob

[o2manyfish]

Shut off the plumbing for an hour and look for any drips - A venturi intake is a leak when the pump isn't drawing.

Dave B

[CAReefer]

Thanks guys,
Heinz, I don't think I would be able to get a good wrap with the duct tape over the various unions and ball valves.
Bob, could this venturi/vortex be occuring inside the pipes where they step up from 3/4" leaving the chiller back up to 1"? Thinking about this tho, the chiller plumbing initially presented no problems with bubbles.
Dave, thanks for the idea this is what I will try next. Seems to me tho with the high surface tension of s/w that unless some serious pressure is applied, it may not leak.

Thanks for all the advice, and I will keep looking
Marshal

[Aged Salt]

Marshal, maybe you mentioned doing this, but have you turned off the skimmer pump to see if indeed it's through your connections/valves/unions? Bob

[nbd13]

Now i am no expert in this matter, heck i have the same problem my self, except mine comes from the overflow i think,

anyway it sounds more and more like you have a leak in your plumbing somewhere...

this is what i would do is take a flash light and shine it in your sump, this is waht i did, espically in the return section to see if you have micro bubbles, BUT look from the side, through the sumps walls....

you should be able to tell where they are and if you have them by your return pump intake.... if you dont have them by you intake, then you must have a leak somewhere....

most people tell me to wait it out and they should go away soon.....

anyway thought i might give you the idea of the flash light, if the room is some what dark it also helps... you can see the denisty or concentration of the microbubbles in different areas....

just a thought.....

Nick

[CAReefer]

Ok, with everyone's help I tracked down the culprit. By the size of the bubbles, I was convinced the leak had to be in the intake side of the pump. That plumbing consists of 3, 1" mpt-slip adapters, 2 unions and a ball valve for an overall length of about 10", straight shot, no elbows. I anticipated there being salt creep if there was a leak somewhere. Wrong.... I took Dave's advice and shut everything off. It took almost 45 minutes, but the threaded adapter that screws into the union had a droplet of water. Ding, ding, ding. So from there I went with Heinz recommendation and threw a wrap of duct tape around the joint and the bubbles were decreased significantly.
Nick, I checked a few days ago with the flashlight trick and there were very few bubbles in the sump, even with the skimmer running. As for your plight, I feel for ya bro. These bubbles can be a biotch, and pretty dang ugly to look at as well. Have you tried shutting everything down for an hour or so and checked for wet spots, specifically on the intake side of all your pumps? With as much flow as you have, I don't see the bubbles getting much time to surface while in the tank, and this may be why your sump is full of bubbles. JMHO
Now the bad new, I have to drain the sump to repair the problem. But I will use that opportunity to make a few mods I have been planning. Adding another 1" bulkhead so I can run a separate feed pump for the prop tank, and an additional 1 1/2" bulkhead between the fuge/settling tank and main sump so I can send all return water through the fuge/settling tank. Now, if the BK 300 internal fits in the first tank of the sump system, I will be in business. I know dimensionally it should fit, but I need to run the return over the walls into the main sump and I haven't been able to get the dimension to the bottom of the return pipe.

Thanks all for the help.
Marshal

[Aged Salt]

Marshal, good to hear your persistence paid off Bob