To fuge or not.....

[DH_Freak]

I have been tossing a argument with my wife to keep our fuge or get rid of it while running ZEO.
I think that its time to pull it out and she thinks it needs to stay in place.
I have noticed no real noticable growth of chorlopa (may be mispelled ..) And have noticed what appears to be a decrease. Is it possible to get some feedback or make a poll of users and none users?
Also does the fact of my skimmer acting up for the last month make a difference of growth or hinderance to the fuge? I have ordered a Deltec AP600 and awaiting its arrival with that said any ideas?

Thanks

Scott

[myreef]

I've already opened, more or less, the same post here below you'll find a very interesting post by invincible 569 about this argu.

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showth...hlight=refugium

[scottw]

Scott,

Great name to start with ... I would get rid of the fuge, your Algae’s will not grow, and hence if they go sexual it may hurt your tank. Not sure which type of Algae’s your using, but that is something to watch out for. Tell your wife that you have done a lot of research on this, and that it’s not needed. Tell her Scott said so and that’s the bottom line hehe.. Ok leave out the last part..

[DH_Freak]

Myreef, That link you have is broken. Is there another one?

Thanks for the input Scott... I will let her know that both Scotts agree and that can't be wrong

Scott

[MrMongoose]

Scott, Would you say to take the fuge out as soon as you start Phase 1 or is it best to wait until the nutriants get low enough where it doesn't grow anymore and then remove it?
Thanks
-Nathan

[DH_Freak]

To fuge or not to fuge..Scott's wife!

This is Scott's wife...Okay, here's some more information. The tank needs to have calcium added, and while the chloropa has stagnated in growth, there are a HUGE amount of bristle worms eating it , also, the chloropa has a "film" of red algae covering it, blocking light which will denegrate growth, also the light SHOULD be kept on 24x7 in the refugium - so I've been told by more than one enthusiast - and it has not been.
From what I understand of the lengthy posting before, it is not that having the refugium is harmful, that is IF you have a proper skimmer. If the skimmer is too powerful, it pulls out too many nutirents and the corals starve, not powerful enough it leaves nutients which putrify leaving nitrates which turn into amonia. Which stress out the fish and cause bad evil green algae to develope.
Too big a change in nutient value one way or the other harms the corals and invertibrates. ..which can cause RTN.
This is where a calicum buffer is also helpful because NaH-4 and Ca+2 will bond, to produce a solid, and will also react with the NaCl+2 + O2 + H2O to produce further salt ions which is removed by the protein skimmer. At least that's what I learned in Chemistry.
My argument is that the refugium isn't hurting the tank, it's the absense of a proper skimmer that has been harmful, since our skimmer has been on the fritz for a month or more.
Our red algae is growing , the purple is doing fine and threatenting to take over the tank, and green happens every few days and we have to clean the glass.

[scottw]

Nathan,

I would go from day one that means you are going to notice the ZEO a lot faster, it won’t have to pull all the nutrients out of the sand, etc. It will work a lot faster, not that it wont work with a DSB but it will take longer.. I am against fuges with ZEO, I think most are, as you can not grow algae's with ZEO, at least I cant

[scottw]

This is Scott's wife...

To Mrs. DH_Freak aka Scott’s wife.

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You are very smart I just want to start off with, good to see you are doing a lot of research.


Now, with ZEOvit you HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD SKIMMER.. ok now that I have that out of the way.. Before you start ZEOvit, I recommend A. Fix your current skimmer or B. Buy a New/Used one before you continue with ZEO if you have already started.


I use to think a a fuge was the way to go, and if your not running ZEO then I would still use a Fuge, but with ZEO, nope they are not used, you will not benefit from a fuge, as you algae’s will not grow, I guess if you want to have a fuge with sand to look at then keep it but it will not help out your tank if using ZEOvit.

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I would also get a Calcium Reactor if you don’t already have one.. And when bristle worms eat chloropa the chloropa can go sexual depending on the type you are using, and that can kill your tank, I have seen it happen, and had it happen to me. Get rid of the Fuge, get a nice Reactor if you don’t already have one, and most important get a quality new or used skimmer before using ZEO.. I for 1 second don’t want to turn you away from ZEOvit, but a Skimmer is a Must, and a Quality one at that.. Look at Euro-Reef, Myreefcreations.com, GEO skimmers are very nice, H&S are great, Deltec are nice as well. There are a lot more, but those seem to be the one’s people on ZEO are using.
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I NEVER HAVE TO CLEAN MY GLASS!!!! Since week 5 I have not had to clean my glass one time, and I don’t see that I will have to anytime soon. Algae’s on the glass is not always a good sign, this tends to lean towards your skimmer problem… Look into a new skimmer.. I know that =’s more money but to be successful GREAT Husbandry is key, and a good quality skimmer will help you with that.

The other Scott.

[DH_Freak]

Thanks Scott II, for the compliment. Though, I didn't do any research, I just remember things from chats and even though I struggled in Chemistry, I managed to understand reactions after the final! hahaa.
I am sure Scott I (my Scott) will read the threads tonight.
How do you feel about 5 gal hospital tanks?

[scottw]

to hold what?

A 5 gallon is really a small tank to hold most fish, and there is no need to put corals in a tank that small.. I would not worry about it, if it were me.. I get my fish from a quality source, and have (knocking on wood) never lost a fish yet from just putting him into the population. I am different then a lot of people when it comes to putting corals and fish into my tank, I temp acclimate them and that’s it. I trust my water is better then any water they are coming to me in so I just drop em in.. A lot of people think different then that, but I have never lost a coral from not acclimating them with Drip Method, etc.

If you want to do a hospital tank, go with a 20L or something along those lines, don’t keep it up, set it up a week or so before you know your going to get fish (half system water, half new water), and keep them in there a week or so, then once in your main tank, dump the tank, clean with bleach/vinegar, set out to dry, and put on the shelf until your ready for the next fish



Scott II

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

to hold what?

Ahhh ... what a great question. Well ...

It seems to me that there are at least two good reasons for keeping the refugium.

First, more total system volume is GOOD ... for all the usual reasons. Even if it's just a little more volume.

Second, a refugium can provide a sequestered location for the cultivation of live foods. A small, dense pile of "rubble" LR, within a BB refugium, is an ideal location to allow populations of ... ciliates, rotifers (... IF they have an adequate phytoplankton food source ... in a ZEOvit system a small population would endure only if you're supplementing the system with a phytoplankton source ...), amphipods, isopods (... including those often mis-identified as amphipods ...), copepods, polychaete worms (... marine detritovores are my friends ... this explains much about the way I post ...), and mysiid shrimp ... to propagate without ANY hobbyist intervention. BTW, most of the beasties listed are at least mildly photophobic ... they don't need lights.

To paraphrase Dire Straits ... badly ... Biodiversity for nothing, and the microfauna for free ... .

... :smoker: .

BTW .... scottw, is it you who are reponsible for the most awesome smilie diversity of any website in the known universe? I'm loving it ... is the ZeoTeam awesome, or what?

.

[DH_Freak]

Well I see my wife has been here
Scott.... I ordered a Deltec AP600 from Doug wich should be here either friday if not here on Monday. I was thinking of the apf600 but then I couldnt buy a calc reactor for a while so I held off in order to get a calc reactor sooner.
I have actually been on ZEO for about 6-8mos.... lost track of time. I have recently had a loss of 3 accros and all I can think is its a combination of some small things such as the fuge and skimmer. My caclium was a bit low and phosphates a bit high... and yet all other items where in the norm-low.
I sure hope with the new skimmer and a Madison reactor for the ZEO to be here perhaps next week maybe and a calc reactor... I will than revamp the whole system and get more timers and monitor things even more closely as I am sure it will make a huge difference.
If you can think of anything perhaps I might be overlooking please let me know as I am still learning.

Thanks

Scott

[bogg]

well i have a fuge and have chatemorphea growling like mad, so much in fact that I trade it in to my lfs for medium sized sps about every 2 weeks.

[scottw]

Greetings All !




BTW .... scottw, is it you who are reponsible for the most awesome smilie diversity of any website in the known universe? I'm loving it ... is the ZeoTeam awesome, or what?

.

Yes sir it is. All 225 of them, I have taken out a few hehe.. so I think its at like 220 or so now .. I love them all Glad to see you like them, I know they bring a smile to my face

[scottw]

Good to hear Scott, Deltec makes a fine skimmer. Bob Loves His, he has a 1004 and its massive.. I wanted to steal it when I got to his house hehe..

For a reactor, I push the Schuran over the Deltec as I own both. Well Owned would be a better choice of words, I sold the deltec, I hate the media for it, black, dirty, have to wash it forever to get it clean, will stop up the pump if the tiny grains get airborne in the chamber.. I Love my Schuran Jetstream1, my calcium levels went from 380 for 490 before I had to bring it down a bit, and it’s stuck at 430ish now. And the media IS SOOOOOO Much cheaper then Deltec. Sounds like you have a killer system going there, now all we need is some pics