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my constant struggle with PO4.... :-(

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  • my constant struggle with PO4.... :-(

    I decided to run a few tests tonight after making a fresh batch of RO/DI water and a fresh batch of SW. TDS in the RO/DI reads 0, (my source water reads 576).

    My RO/DI tested at 0.04 and my freshly mixed Oceanic SW tested 0.08..

    I'm starting to not enjoy this anymore and I really want to find a solution..

    I'm sick of being in phase 1 after 10 months of zeo dosing, but with numbers like these it's hardly suprising, I'm really sick of bubble algae, dull corals, limited growth, and all the other things that go along with high PO4. I need some serious help here. :headshot:

    I've had the same plastic containers for a few years now so I would expect they have long since leached out all their PO4.

    I replaced my Ca Rx media on the weekend after running the new media in a bucket with RO/DI and a phosban reactor for a couple of days. PO4 of the media water after a couple of days was 0.02 (which didn't seem so bad).

    so, I'm really just lost for ideas. What can I do to end this phosphate nightmare that I'm having ? how can I get my RO/DI water down to 0 ? What sort of salt should I be use ? Did I just get a bad batch of Oceanic salt ?

    any suggestions appreciated..

    thanks,
    rich

  • #2
    Have you tried to pass the RO/DI water thru a 2nd stage DI?

    Perhaps switch to another brand of salt?

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    • #3
      I have a spare filter stage sitting here and I could easily get a DI cart for it if that would help.. I was thinking that at TDS 0 there should be no PO4 but I guess I was mistaken.. Would a second DI stage take out any PO4 that is left in the water ?

      Which brand of salt ? I have no loyalty to Oceanic, I just want something that fits within the zeo parameters and has no PO4. I don't mind mixing salts to get the right levels of Alk/Ca but it's the PO4 that is killing me. any suggestions for salt to get a lower PO4 reading ?

      thanks,
      rich.

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      • #4
        As far as I know, PO4 does not register any TDS. Same goes for Silicates as well.

        Right now I am on Tropic Marine Pro Reef, can't remember the actual PO4 reading but definately less than 0.02ppm.

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        • #5
          Rich, have you tried lowering the PO4 content of your source water by running a PO4 remover on your water reservoir for a while before you do your water change or top-up?
          400 gallon reef, Bubble King 300, I~Spin, 2 x 10,000K BLV 400W, 2 x 20,000K Radium 400W, 2 x 6,400K Osram 400W, Schuran Jetstream 1, AquaController Pro

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          • #6
            Rich, I run 2 DI cartridges on my RO unit. It seems to work good for me.. Also KZ salt should be here Mid July which is good news for all of us as you can add Ca and Mg to suit your systems needs. I currently use Oceanic but I am tired of testing at 480 Ca and 1450 Mg.. I did happen to test out the new seachem salt after IMAC this weekend.. At 1.025 CA was 350, Mg 1250, PH 8.32 dKH 8.1... I never tested it for PO4 though.. I do feel with some tweaking of the Ca and MG though this salt had decent numbers for zeovit use. I would like to run another test after aireating overnight and also getting it to 78-80 degress..
            Last edited by gqjeff; 06-28-2005, 10:12 AM.

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            • #7
              If the salt is suspected of holding Po4, I wonder if, after mixing, it could be trickled through some Salifert Phosphate Killer, or similar, prior to going in the tank.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wasp
                If the salt is suspected of holding Po4, I wonder if, after mixing, it could be trickled through some Salifert Phosphate Killer, or similar, prior to going in the tank.
                I dont see any harm in doing so. Would be no different than one running PO4 remover on RO/DI to rid it of PO4.
                Dustin

                "Water is the driving force of all nature"
                Leonardo da Vinci

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                • #9
                  Thanks everyone.. I ordered some more DI resin last night so I'll hook up a second DI stage to my RO/DI before my next batch is made. it was a good excuse to get one of those cool inline TDS meters too..

                  sounds like I need to invest in some more PO4 reactors.. hmmm, I could always run my top-off water into a small PO4 Rx in the sump, but it is probably best to remove the PO4 before it goes into the top-off container. I should probably have one for FW and one for SW and not mix the two..

                  does anyone know where I can get some PO4 absorbing media in bulk ? I think I need to get a 50lb bag of the stuff for the amount of phosphate I have

                  That new seachem salt sounds interesting gqjeff, I have a really hard time getting any variety of salt in my area tho.. the petco's all stock Oceanic and the LFSs have IO or Coralife so there isn't much to choose from. Maybe I'll try some of the KZ salt when it gets here..

                  do you guys order salt online or try to source it locally ?

                  thanks,
                  rich

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                  • #10
                    Just a thing about DI resin, if you are using color change resin, the color change is only a rough guide to the state of the resin.
                    Read a post on RC recently where a guy suspected something was wrong with the resin, even though the color was still OK, he tested, and the water coming out, had a higher TDS, than the water going in.

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                    • #11
                      Rich, I order my salt online.. Much better prices then local and no sales tax.. So it usually is a wash for price.... Rich, I used the reef formula also from seachem.. I got 150 gallons for free ...

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                      • #12
                        here is my newly modified WC container complete with PO4 Rx..



                        I couldn't find an online place that had a decent selection of salt, all the places I normally buy from just had the usual stuff.. so for the moment I'm just going to stick with the Oceanic and see if I can't get some of the PO4 out with phosban. I'd rather have a little iron in the water than any phosphate.

                        I'll run some tests later and see what the numbers are..

                        rich.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another thought, not sure if you use a calcium reactor but here's an experience a local guy here had -
                          He had high Po4 of 3, so I and some others eventually persuaded himto go zeovit to get rid of it. He got it down to 2, but that was it, couldn't get it any lower. He rang me up a few times taliking about the money he was wasting on zeovit, and I was starting to wish I never said he should do it.
                          Anyhow, the breakthrough came when another guy got him to check his CA reactor effluent, and Bingo! way high Po4, it was coming from the media. He did not want to change media, so instead is dripping the effluent through some Salifert Phosphate Killer.
                          Not long he had the tank phosphate down to 0.015, and he is now a very happy chappy, loves his zeovit.
                          The SFK thing is not standard procedure I know, but it does illustrate that CA media may sometimes be a problem.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wasp
                            Just a thing about DI resin, if you are using color change resin, the color change is only a rough guide to the state of the resin.
                            Read a post on RC recently where a guy suspected something was wrong with the resin, even though the color was still OK, he tested, and the water coming out, had a higher TDS, than the water going in.
                            but did he perform back flush/wash of the media every now and then cause if he never, it also explain why he suffer from the problem...
                            ---------------------------
                            180g 3 side Low Iron Glass, Lighting: ATI Power Module 10 x 80W KZ Coral Light (awiting for to mix with fiji purple), Return Pump: Red Dragon 12m3, Tunze WaveMaker:1x 6200, 3 x 6100 and 1 x 6060 + Multicontroller 7095, Bubble King 300 Internal, Deltec - PF 601S, Arctica Chiller 1/2HP, I~Zeo Reactor IZ-618

                            BK 300 in actionhttp://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v5...IDEO_00003.flv

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                            • #15
                              Oh that's interesting Keigo, didn't know that.
                              But how to back flush it? If I simply reversed connections I can't see there being enough flow to actually flush it.

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