New to the ZEOvit concept...

[slojmn]

Hi all, I am setting up my new reef tank and I have great interest in the Zeovit system for the new tank. I have some basic questions that were not answered in the Zeovit Guide. First off what test kits do you all recommend? I have the usual Salifert, alk, calcium, nitrate, ammonia(only because I am cycling a new system). It seems Mg and PO4 would be important, any other things to test for? Brands???

Feeding questions. I am planning a clam/sps tank. I hope to have about 12 clams in my tank, 15-18 sps, my Rose anemone(I have gotten very attached to this guy over the years), and 7-9 fish. I have not decided if I plan on keeping my chromis once this tank is ready to go. So what suggestions do you have for feeding the fish? I know what I have always done, but with the Zeovit system things may need to change. How about feeding the clams? In a nutrient poor system how will they filter feed? at least I figure there won't be much to filter out. Though I could be wrong with this assertion. These are just a few questions...I hope to have water and the live rock in the tank in about 6-8 weeks so I have a lot of time to learn and ask questions for all of you more experieced Zovit users. Thanks for your time

[gqjeff]

First, WELCOME to zeoville and also tglad to have you as part of the zeovit community. If your clams are over 3" you do not have to feed them at all.. They will get all they need from the lights... I had 2 clams start under 2.5" and never feed them and they did great.. I have 400 watt halids though so I know they get plenty of light... I recommend salifert for test kits but we are having a GB on the hanna PO4 tester now.. Its the best way to get accurate PO4 readings.. I also would suggest the Mg test kit as you stated above...

Peace, Jeff

[slojmn]

Thanks for your reply Jeff, sounds like small clams can be fed just fine with regular clam food sources if they are under the 2" size without a problem with the zeovit system. I will definately look into the Hanna PO4 tester. Where do I find that great buy?

What about the fish??? What are you all doing, your regualr feeding regiment?? I like to use various fresh fish and other supplements...a homemade fish food that has always kept my fish super healthy. Will this kind of feeding really impact the zeovit system. I know not to feed to often or to much. WHat other concerns shoudl I keep in mind.

[gqjeff]

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2018. I feed my tangs 2 times a day.. I use 1 4*3 piece of seaweed 2 times a day.. I feed my clowns brine every 2 days.. I feed my 2 RBTA's 2 times a week mixing between shrimp or silversides. I have been soaking my food in seachem also..

Peace, Jeff

[gqjeff]

Also yes for small clams you can place them in a shell and take it out of water and put it in a small container of green water to keep polutants out of the tank..

[GTR]

Slojmn...
Welcome!

I'll comment on feeding

Zeovit is a nutrient reduction system or method. With it you will be able to maintain nitrates and phosphates at near natural seawater levels. Heavy feeding will contribute to the load and may make the low level goal more difficult to maintain.

I'm not an SPS junkie but still find the zeomethod very helpful in maintaining the conditions I'm looking for and easier than others methods I've tried over the years.

IMO...
Must have test kits are...
• Alkalinity
• Calcium
• Magnesium
• pH (or meter)
• Accurate method to measure/maintain salinity

If you can read the results...
• Phosphates
• Nitrates

For reagent based tests I will only use Salifert but have tried many others.
For pH I would not run a tank without a full time pH meter
For PO4 I use the Hanna Colorimeter
I never measure Nitrates because I can't read the results with confidence of any test kit I've purchased for reef tank use.

HTH
SteveU

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

soljmn ... it's great to see you posting here! ...

How about feeding the clams? In a nutrient poor system how will they filter feed? at least I figure there won't be much to filter out.

Daniel Knop says it pretty well ...

"Only the smallest particles present in the plankton, the so-called nano-plankton, is accepted as actual food. Not only the size of the particles but their concentration in the seawater is also important ... . Feeding clams should simulate the natural condition with small concentrations of food available over long periods of time."

... and ...

" The mussels of the family Tridacnidae are provided with nutrients from the photosynthesis of their algae to complete their diet (Fitt, 1988). Although they still have gills which are common in mussels and which filter planktonic food from the water, they have achieved a lot of independence from the nutrient densities of their habitat by endosymbiosis."

Extracted from:
Giant Clams. A Comprehensive Guide to the Identification and Care of Tridacnid Clams.
Daniel Knop, Dahne Verlag, 1996.

Photosynthesis is the key, and the increased water clarity of the ZEOvit method can only help things. The bacterioplankton generated by the ZEOvit system are within the proper particle size range for filter feeding. Additionally, the bacterial additives, as well as the normal operation of ZeoReactors, tend to provide low concentrations of bacterioplankton within the water column on a continual basis ... all other things being equal, No worries regarding Tridacnid nutrition with ZEOvit.

So what suggestions do you have for feeding the fish? I know what I have always done, but with the Zeovit system things may need to change.

I prefer a frequent (3X-5X per day) feeding schedule using very small (95% consumed within 1 minute) amounts of food. As others have mentioned, the only real worry is that uneaten food can accumulate and mildly disrupt ZEOvit system low-nutrient equilibria.

I like to use various fresh fish and other supplements...a homemade fish food that has always kept my fish super healthy. Will this kind of feeding really impact the zeovit system.

I would think that the Rose Bulb Anemone really likes the fresh fish and homemade stuff. Given that you're aware of the risks of overfeeding, I wouldn't think there's a whole lot of risk with regards to this type of feeding impacting the ZEOvit system. I only thing that might give me a little pause is the composition of the supplements you're adding. If you're sticking with the vitamin and fatty acids supplements ... no worries. If you're adding significant amounts of amino acids to your food, then you may wish to watch for a potential mild disruption of ZEOvit system functioning ... but I doubt that this is much of a concern. In most areas, I've found the ZEOvit system to be pretty forgiving, as long as I'm paying attention to what I'm doing. The exception is overdosing of ZEOvit system components, but I don't consider that to be a "feeding" issue.

Additional feed supplements that I've been tinkering around with is the supplementation of live foods ... copepods, amphipods, and Gracilaria macroalgae (for the tangs and angels). So far I'm very pleased with my results.

HTH ...

[slojmn]

mesocosm, Thank you for your thoughtful and well said opinions on feeding regiments with zeovit system. That, along with the other comments, really helps me get a sense of how to move forward with the feeding of my fish once the system is up and running. I like the idea of small feedings throughout the day, though my work schedule does get in the way a bit. I have Daniel's Giant Clams book and have learned a ton over the years keeping these guys. I need to get the book you referenced, I've been meaning to, now I will. I had great success in my nutrient rich system with clams...so it should be even better now . What are your thoughts on adding these specific additives Selcon, garlic extract, and Kent Marine ZOE Marine formula to my slushy homemade stuff? The Zoe is definate vitamins, amino acids, and minerals supplement along with spirulina algaes...I don't have any Selcon around but my guess is that it has more of the fatty acids. I'll have to research that a bit.

[Orion76]

Additional feed supplements that I've been tinkering around with is the supplementation of live foods ... copepods, amphipods, and Gracilaria macroalgae (for the tangs and angels). So far I'm very pleased with my results.

I don't mean to hijack this thread BUT are you breeding your own copepods and do you find the work vs. yield good enough to warrant the effort?

[Aged Salt]

Hi Slojmn, & welcome aboard As I near the 1 yr. mark on ZEOvit, I've had no problem feeding Anthias, a shoal of chromis & a show-size Emperator & several other large fish, in addition to several clams, all the while in nutrient-poor waters. The clams are always wide-open with beautiful coloration in part to the crystal clear water that ZEOvit method renders, & the mulm from pump-cleaning the zeo-reactor 2x's/day, which the clams may use. This "duff" also is nourishment for our corals. One other point regarding feeding clams that I've noticed is the strong mantle color has been even more apparent since I've added AALPS to my schedule Bob

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

... What are your thoughts on adding these specific additives Selcon, garlic extract, and Kent Marine ZOE Marine formula to my slushy homemade stuff? The Zoe is definate vitamins, amino acids, and minerals supplement along with spirulina algaes...

Remembering that this is "Just My Opinion" ... ...

Amino Acids (in general)
I am totally satisfied with the ZEOvit System's Amino Acid High Concentrate product. Not only do I see no reason for additional AA supplementation, I see a real potential for disturbing ZEOvit system equilibria by supplementing additional and/or significant amounts of amino acids to my system.

Kent Marine Zoe
I "like" this product, but ... we're talking about constituent chemicals which degrade through oxidation, even while frozen. I would prefer to add Zoe to the food immediately prior to its presentation to the animals. Keep the Zoe bottle "chilled" and unexposed to air as much as possible.

Personally, I prefer different vitamin supplements, but Zoe is ... IMO ... a good, convenient product. The stuff I use is:

Vitamin Premix
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/.../5824/cid/1531

But 1 lb is probably a bit much for your uses. You might also google some of the food formulas available on the web. Folks are using crushed multi-vitamin tablets with success, and it's definitely cheaper than Zoe.


Garlic Extract
I just haven't seen "definitive" evidence demonstrating the effectiveness of garlic extracts, but the anecdotal information is intriguing. Allicin (Diallyl thiosulfinate, or Diallyl disulphide-oxide) is pretty interesting stuff, with a long history of medicinal application.

Having said that ... many "body collectors" who worked the graveyard shift during the "Black Death" in the 14th century regularly got drunk on a mixture of garlic juice and wine prior to showing up for work. Church records from that period indicate that they had a significantly higher survival rate than their collegues who did not so imbibe ... go figure. I don't know which is more disturbing ... the fact that this trivia tidbit was actually included in a CSULB Economic Botany course ...

... or the fact that I posted it here ...

An interesting read ... to me, at least ... on the subject is ...

Garlic versus 'Marine Ich'
Diallyl thiosulfinate activity against Cryptocaryon irritans infestations of marine fish
by Horge Cortes-Jorge Jr.
http://www.reefs.org/library/article...tes-jorge.html

Selcon
GET IT! This is great stuff ... omega-3 HUFAs (highly unsaturated fatty acids), vitamin B12, and stabilized ascorbic acid (vitamin C). It's a major mainstream aquaculture dietary supplement for a reason. Great stuff ... and keep it refrigerated. If you can find it, get Super Selcon. Regular Selcon is 200 mg/ml, while Super Selcon is 400 mg/ml ... definitely worth the money, IMO.

Spirulina
Also great stuff, but ... I've had some problems with it as it tends to accumulate. Several siprulina products also contain low amounts of astaxanthin. While astaxanthin is also GREAT stuff, someone else on this website ... G.Alexander, IIRC ... has reported that excess astaxanthin accumulation can result in "browning out"/pigment degradation/masking. Having pointed that out ... I'm a MAJOR fan of spirulina dietary supplementation. IMO ... the potential benefits outweigh the potential drawbacks.

Nori
Again, great stuff, but ... I've had some problems with it as it tends to accumulate. I much prefer to use live Gracilaria as an algae food source for tangs, angels, and rabbitfish.

A suggestion for another supplement to include ...

Beta Glucan
Anti-oxidants are a good thing ... but they don't come cheap. We're talking ~$40 for 15000 mg ... that's about $3 per gram. Just do a google search using keyword "beta glucan" and you'll find MANY sources.

Some background reading:

BETA GLUCAN AS A BIOLOGICAL DEFENSE MODULATOR:
HELPING FISH TO HELP THEMSELVES
by TERRY BARTELME
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...03/feature.htm


If you haven't come across it before, you might consider checking out Aquatic Ecosystems aqauculture feed/supplies stuff ...
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...ections/sid/31

JMO ... HTH

[mesocosm]

Greetings All !

I don't mean to hijack this thread BUT are you breeding your own copepods and do you find the work vs. yield good enough to warrant the effort?

I don't mean to help you hijack it, BUT ... ...

For me? Yes, I find it very worth the effort. For most other folks? Perhaps ... perhaps not. I doubt that most folks will find the time/money vs. yield of classic "batch" culturing very satisfying ... despite the significant benefits. One of the things I'm fooling around with currently is trying to apply an aquaculture strategy called "Mesocosm Farming" ... no kidding ... on a small, marine ornamental scale. What you can get is a rich, high-density "food web" habitat with a minimum of time investment.

Pictures of the beasties flourishing in one of my current experiments ...

Copepods ...




Cilitates (the smaller out-of-focus elongated rod things ... the bigger, longer one in the lower right is a marine annelid) ... BTW, thats "mulm" and detritous they're munching on ...




Bristleworms ...




Amphipods ...




Zooplankton "soup" ...




and "unknowns" ... still haven't keyed this guy out ...




The "microcosm/mesocosm" that these guys were generated in ...




I kind of got off on the "feeding" tangent ... no offense ... I'll stop now. From my perspective, these guys are the "ultimate" homemade food. Think about it ...

Sorry about the highjacking slojmn ... if anyone wants to discuss this stuff further, please start another thread.

Thanks !

[Orion76]

ALL YOUR THREADS ARE BELONG TO US!!
:flame::destroy:

[slojmn]

No worries on hijacking my thread/topic. I find this fascinating as well...whatever direction it goes in is fine with me, my questions were answered and then some . I did notice a new thread started on mesocosm farming. It reminded me of a few years back when I took soem of the gunk from my refugium into a middle school science class to find all the life in it...lots of a few kinds of beings, copepods and amphipods and not much else...this surprised me. It sounds like you got it right in your system.

[Ger]

and "unknowns" ... still haven't keyed this guy out ...

Looks like the head of an underwater-kangaroo to me...what do you think, Gary?