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What would cause this? Troubleshoot please.

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  • What would cause this? Troubleshoot please.

    I have been having a strange occurance with some of my milliporas. It seems to affect only the millies. Here is a pic, then more info.



    The flesh on the lower parts of 2 millies seems to bleach, and encounter some what I would call "polyp bailout". The coral shown is about 14" in diameter and in the top 12" of water. I would say it gets moderate flow and high light. The lower branches are shaded by the upper but by no means is it dark there. I have a blue millie in high flow, in front of and about 4" away from a 1/2" sea swirl and it is experiencing the same symptoms. They don't seem to be progressing, but several corals seem to be going lighter in color (read white) but no tissue loss.

    Some specs.
    245 net gallons
    2.5 liters Zeolith
    10 drops bak 2x weekly
    10 drops food 2x weekly
    3/4 mil start 2x daily
    3 drops AAHC daily
    2 cups SeaChem Matrix carbon changed every 4 weeks.

    Parameters
    Sg 1.025
    CA 440
    Alk 8.0
    Mg 1300
    Po4
    no3 all zero on Salifert
    Temp 79-81 degrees.

    Just at the 4 month mark on Zeo today, and 1/2 way through the 2 week every other day dosing of a Zeo change out. It should also be noted I have treated with interceptor a total of 5 doses since february. I only dosed twice the first time and they came back. A second regimen of all 3 treatments was finished 2 weeks ago.

    Any thoughts?

    CAReefer
    265 gallon SPS tank. Bubble King 300 Internal, MRC CR-6 Calc Reactor. 3 400 watt 20k Helios. 90 gallon Frag tank plumbed into main display.

  • #2
    The part that looks bare.. does it not get light? I know that under some of my corals.. where light doesnt shine, it turns into what you showed.

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    • #3
      I would say it receives moderate light. Not dark, but not as bright as the upper limbs. Some places do receive direct light and the the symptoms are the same. Also the coral that is pictured in my avatar is now nearly white except for about 1" on all the tips. My blue tort isnt affected and is getting bluer by the day and the color extending further into the coral. I dosed very conservatively for the first 3 months and this problem appeared in the first month or two of dosing zeo. Until now it has only affected the large green millie.
      265 gallon SPS tank. Bubble King 300 Internal, MRC CR-6 Calc Reactor. 3 400 watt 20k Helios. 90 gallon Frag tank plumbed into main display.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Marshal, can you provide a full-milli pixs? This is very unusual & perplexing. I've asked Alexander to lend his opinion also, but several possibilities exist:
        1) parasite infestation
        2) chemical burn from Interceptor, however, I've not heard that others using this treatment with ZEOvit have had this syndrome. Are you using Spur2?
        3)Photo-burn from crystal-clear water of ZEOvit. Are these corals toward the top? New MH's?
        4) Unstable swings in parameters.
        5) Zeo-dosing excess effects. Can you test your P04's with a Hanna meter? Are you using any P04 remover with the ZEOvit method?

        Marshal, until Alexander responses, I would hold all zeo-dosing, decrease your lighting period by 2hrs, & try feeding your fish 2-3x's/day, as you may have the unusual problem of driving your P04's so low that the corals have nutrient starvation. Bob
        "There might be something to this ZEOvit"

        Comment


        • #5
          My guess would be turbellaria or hairy poly eating crabs. I have no experience with the red bugs, so I am not sure if their damage looks similar.

          IMO this has nothing to do with the environment.

          G.Alexander

          Comment


          • #6
            I am sure that this is a stupid question, as I am sure the answer is no, but just in case, you are not running any other phosphate removers? ( rophos, phosban etc) Also is are your carbon amount’s correct, and it is run passively?
            And is the flow through your Zeo reactor not maybe to strong? Also are you running a 3 hour on 3 hour off cycle?
            Are you also switching off the skimmer for 60min when doseing food/and bak?
            Last edited by Funkyskunk; 04-22-2005, 03:49 AM.

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            • #7
              Thnx. Alexander :playboy:
              Christiaan, those suggestions are right on also Marshal, can you check the base for FW's? I wonder if you recently changed carbon brands? Bob
              "There might be something to this ZEOvit"

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for all the responses. I will try to answer all questions and include the requested pics.

                First the pics.
                This is a full shot of the most severely affected one. Taken today.


                Here is the one from my avatar as of today. The one bald spot midway is from when it fell against the monti in the foreground.


                Here is another affected Mille, it is much lower in the tank and directly behind is a Tunze 6100. so flow isn't the issue here.


                I see no signs of any visual parasites, I have zoomed in extremely close with photoshop and all flesh is clear of any abnormalities.

                Currently using Start1. I am finishing the bottle prior to switching.

                The largest millie is in the top 12" of the tank between a 250 de BLV and a SE hamilton 14k. The other is in the lower third of the tank. directly under BLV. All bulbs more or less 5 months old.

                The most unstable param I have is temp. runs between 78 and 82 at the end of photoperiod. Unfortunately a chiller is not in the budget at the moment. Still working with ventilation and seem to be chipping away at the majority of the swing. Alk had dropped to 7, 2 weeks ago and just now got it back up to 8.

                No one I know in the area has a hanna meter. No other P04 removal process in effect.

                I don't feel it is a lack of available nutrients as the hair algae and macro algaes continue to grow. They have slowed down in the last few weeks and are far from flourishing but growing nonetheless.

                As to the crabs, I have seen none, and I feel the multiple dosages of interceptor takes this out of the equation. I do have a flame angel, tho I have never seen her pick at polyps, the problem seems to be too widespread and in inaccessible areas. I am unfamiliar with what a turbellaria is.

                Funkyskunk may be on to something as I changed to a less expensive carbon to deal with the interceptor tx's. And I ran it (only the last dosage) in a phosban reactor as aggressive use of carbon is recommended after treating. These symptoms exsisted prior to this, but seem to correalate with the first treatment and the use of the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals brand carbon instead of my usual SeaChem Matrix. I removed both the AP carbon and the reactor and went back to my usual 2 cups of SeaChem 1 week after treatment. There does seem to be some improvement since then so that might be the key.

                Flow through the reactor is 225 gph with 2 1/2 liters of Zeoliths.

                Reactor is cycled 3 hrs on 3 hrs off and the skimmer is shut down for 1 hr after dosing bak and food.

                Thanks for all the help.

                Also I may end up being the first Zeo tank of the Month at RC. Skipper contacted me and wants me to submit for june TOTM. I haven't told him yet that I have been a ZeoHead for 4 months. We will see........

                CAReefer
                265 gallon SPS tank. Bubble King 300 Internal, MRC CR-6 Calc Reactor. 3 400 watt 20k Helios. 90 gallon Frag tank plumbed into main display.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thnx., Marshal, for the detailed report. Your log certainly points to either the Interceptor Tx &/or the change of carbon brands used with a canister. These denuded areas should recover over the next couple of months, although if you are using Spur2, I would withhold it's use until those areas looked healthy again. It would be fine to use the other zeo-suppplements. Bob
                  "There might be something to this ZEOvit"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks Bob, I am using the start1 until the bottle is gone. 45 bucks you know.
                    265 gallon SPS tank. Bubble King 300 Internal, MRC CR-6 Calc Reactor. 3 400 watt 20k Helios. 90 gallon Frag tank plumbed into main display.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      By looking at your photo's it looks like,what I've been threw and still getting rid of them.You won't see these Acro eating flat worms.They are clear....I bet you got these nasty worms.They can do a lot of damage.You need to dip that coral,and then you will see if you have them.They will curl up,then you can get them off.The dip won't hurt your coral.It will travel to other corals.They chew the flesh on them.Lost of color,reduced polyp ext. another sign.,light color.It starts at the base,and works it way up.Also look at the base for a golden coloration of egg clusters.You need to get them also.If you can't get to the eggs.You can super glue gel the clusters.But you better check the coral over very careful for these flatwroms.I know it's not what you want to here.You can get it under control,but you have to keep at it.I had to dip every coral,to find out which ones really had them.This will be my 4 inspection this weekend.The more you do it,the less you will find.But it's a REAL PAIN ..... :sad: I hope you don't have them.....But to find out for sure,the dip will tell you.Give it 10 minutes....Usually they will start to move,and lose a grip in about 5 minutes.You need a good magnifying glass for inspections.That's how hard it is to see these Acro eating Flatworms.Keep us posted.
                      C/B

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                      • #12
                        I hope not also. What kind of dip do you suggest?
                        CAReefer
                        265 gallon SPS tank. Bubble King 300 Internal, MRC CR-6 Calc Reactor. 3 400 watt 20k Helios. 90 gallon Frag tank plumbed into main display.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You can use Seachem "Reef Dip ".One gallon to 5 mills.If you have new frags,that been added.You can use Lugol's 10 drops per quart.I found out the older colonies can handle the Seachem dip really good.But the small new frags you might have gotten in,the Lugol's isn't as harsh on them.Wait at least 5 mins.before you start to look for them.They will kinda lose a grip on the coral.Get yourself a something that has a point,because you will need to scrape them.They just don't float off,like you would think.I just don't hopw you have them.Because you have to check EVERY CORAL ! For me that was about 100 corals and frags.And all day job ! This stuff is so safe,I've been dip every Sunday now.So no need to worry.Just don't leave them in there longer than 10 minutes.And you will be fine.Your coral pic you posted,that coral will tell you right from the start,if you got them.I've heard they are wide spread threw the hobby now.But you can get a handle on it.If you have a effected coral.It will take about a week,to recover for you.It's amazing how fast they come back,after there removal.Keep us posted.If you need anything else just posted here,and we can help you.

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                          • #14
                            Marshall, I lost a whole tank to this same thing way before ZEO. I am 99% positive it isn't over dosing. I never found out what it was but I wish you the best of luck.

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                            • #15
                              I don't like the direction of this conversation. So now I will plug my ears and sing.... LaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLaLa
                              265 gallon SPS tank. Bubble King 300 Internal, MRC CR-6 Calc Reactor. 3 400 watt 20k Helios. 90 gallon Frag tank plumbed into main display.

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