How does zeovit work?

[adobo]

I read the FAQs and mandatory reading described in this site. (ammonium ion exchange, etc).

It seems that these topics were discussed in other forums including reef central. A couple of people who seemed to know chemistry pretty well (and one seemed to know zeoliths very well also) give the impression that:

Zeolites have almost nil application in seawater due to it's ionic strength. The amount of Nitrate Zeolites can actually adsorb is also nil, if at all. The use of them in this hobby is that they end up acting like LR and bring about Facultative Anaerobic Denitrification, which can be accomplished with any pores media that meets the requirement, like certain GAC's

Has there been anymore research done that addresses what some seemingly knowledgeable people are saying about zeoliths?

Thansk,

Adobo

[wasp]

There's a heap of theories.

But bottom line - you stick it in your tank, the tank cleans up, your corals look better than they ever did, your running costs go down. (or mine did anyway).

[GTR]

Adobo,
It might help if you could provide a link to the origin of the quote you provided so it can be read in context.
SteveU

[SeanCallan]

ZEOvit is more then the ZEOliths, it's a combined system of bacteria and the proper nutrients.

Various components of the system do various things so I wouldn't consider the entire system a lose if you lacked ZEOliths.

ZEObak & ZEOfood provide the aquarium with the proper levels of bacteria as well as food for our corals. Some of these substances require replacing because they are being remove through the "wet skimming".

ZEOStart is as it name implies, it helps jump start the chain reaction to a low nutrient system.

ZEOSpur is used to expulse older zoox from SPS and allow for a the coral to rebuild new more effecient zoox as well as utilizing other methods of uptake(thanks Bob ).

AA, Fe and such are simply more advanced chemicals that are either minimal in or salt or non-existant. We replace these essential elements to help improve the lively-hood our of 'pets'.

ZEOvit aslo utilizes active carbon to remove various waste products and undesired chemicals from the system.

Lastly, and there may be things I'm forgetting, but skimming. In a ZEO enviroment one of the most important things, IMO, is skimming. With proper "wet skimming" or "over skimming" you remove a substantial amount of the unwanted nutrients from the water column. I believe skimming makes or breaks your tank when it comes to the ZEOvit system.

As for the ZEOliths, I can only say what I've been told about them as I have no biological or chemical experience with these.

[adobo]

Wasp

But bottom line - you stick it in your tank, the tank cleans up, your corals look better than they ever did, your running costs go down. (or mine did anyway).

Would this approach be analogous to throwing in a virgin into a volcano in the hopes of calming the volcano gods?

GTR,

Uh... the first thread I read has 28 pages. "Boomer" is the original source of the quote. Here is a reference:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...t&pagenumber=4

More detailed explainations from "Boomer" appear in this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=133912

These threads also imply that zeoliths are incapable of removing ammonium ions in seawater....

Adobo

[wasp]

Adobo, this reference below is not the whole story, but combine it with what SeanCallun said and you'll be on the right track http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3...te_Filters.htm

And throwing a virgin in a volcano, well, if it has been shown to work.....

[adobo]

Wasp,

The threads in reef central that I referred to contradict the article you refer to (specifically around zeolites' ability to both adsorb ammonium and to be colonized by bacteria). I am not doubting the results of the folks who use zeovit. I am, however, trying to find out if there is science that explains the results.

Adobo

P.S. Throwing virgins in must work. How else can you explain the fact that volcanoes go inactive for many generations?

[Diesel3443]

how does it work??? Hmmm....I wish I knew, but I do know that it does work

[Orion76]

More detailed explainations from "Boomer" appear in this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=133912

These threads also imply that zeoliths are incapable of removing ammonium ions in seawater....

And in the same thread Rany Holmes Farley and Habib both say that it can be done, as a matter of fact Habib did an expirement that he describes in this thread and did successfully reduce ammonia in sea water using zeolites.

Did you read the whole thread?

[adobo]

I am one of those people who prefers to look at the pictures instead of reading the text to start out with but I thought I would give it the old college try. I read about 4 pages into the 28 page thread. But then, they referred to another thread where someone started to use terms like Tetrahedron and Polyhedra. At that point, I gave up.

Adobo

[GTR]

Adobo...
Thanks for the link and I followed that thread from it's birth to it's death. Some take the poster's "opinions" as fact. I don't happen to fall into the category.

There's much more to the system than anyone here can (or will) explain and support with proven research.

It just work's and this forum was formed to insure that each user gets the best possible results from the system with the help of many here that have had more experience using Thomas Pohl's system.

SteveU

[Orion76]

Adobo, I read the whole thread and it is actually what made me think "there might be something to this whole zeo thing" and want to give it a try.

[wasp]

Adobo, there are a lot of experts on Reef Central, with a number of theories about zeovit, some contradictory. Randy, who I have great respect for, believes that the ionic attraction that zeolit has for ammonia, could not benefit the local bacteria. He bases this on the idea that the extra ammonia would only be 1 molecule thick, too thin for bacteria to benefit greatly from.
However, nobody is infallible, and I believe Randy may have got that one wrong, based purely on results. The results are, that if zeovit is tested before, and after, use, it will be found to have absorbed almost no ammonia or phosphate. But yet, it's use greatly enhances removal of these from an aquarium. We may safely surmise that phosphate at least, in a zeovit based system, leaves via the skimmer, because zeovit does not work in a skimmerless system. It is therefore a very reasonable assumption, and in fact the only logical one, that the zeolit rock does enhance the performance of bacteria and allow them to absorb more ammonia and phosphate than they otherwise would, and then be skimmed from the tank along with the nutrients they have utilized.
The exact mechanism of this is still being debated, any and every theory has it's detractors. However, IMO, the bacteria do live on the zeolit rock, and are enabled to take more ammonia etc than they otherwise would. Once the zeolit rock has "used up" all it's ionic attraction, it ceases to function in the manner we want, and has to be replaced.
In my opinion, the Jens article is a fairly accurate commentary. You mention some experts on RC with different opinions. Not wishing to detract from them, however, close scrutiny will reveal that many of them have not used zeovit, or even seen it.

[spongebob]

husbandry may be at play too

I beleive husbandry may be at play in the mix as well. Those who are diligent maintain their systems as regularly and with the attention to detail that Zeovit requires would likely have really well manitained systems. The photos of Zeovit operated tanks are increadible. Can you have a system that looks good without using zeovit - yes.

Can it look as good? I don't know. I have been conducting an experiment to see.

Just because the volcano stops rumbling , does not mean the virgin stopped the eruption, it only means that the volcano stopped. Lot's of volcanoes stop without adding virgins.

Note: Of all the things one could possibly do with a virgin, throw one in a valcano? PLEASE!!!

[nyfireman3097]

Also look who is starting these threads BOOMER the one guy who more Zeo users argue with he has a big head thinks he knows everything i started to use ZEO and in 2 days my water was clearer then ever before in 5-7 days my blue tip stag turned all blue in 2 weeks my brown sps's had almost full color and now after 3 months all those stingy sps' that werent growing before Blossuming like weeds i do EXACTLY the same things now as i did then besides the fact of using ZEO now i didnt change anything else other then that and im having amazing results long live ZEO
Nick