Idea for another pump?

[nbd13]

Alright guys,

i have been thinking about my flow alot. and have come to the conclusion that i most likely will have to add some other type of flow.

now i really like these darts and still want to keep streams and waveboxes out of the tank.

so i am thinking about adding another dart to the equation. they are nice, move alot of water and are pretty quite. the customer service is top notch too....

ther ONLY problem is i do not have another bulkhead to use. so this is what i am thinking, using a "hook" to plumb the new pump in. now i will use this as my intake strainer. http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm...d/8566/cid/2098
they are BIG, about 5.5" wide, 5.5" tall, and 6" tall. i will use the 2" version. anyway they are nice and decrease the suction greatly. this will go behind my 3 pillar island. once corals grow in (need to get those first, haha) you wont be able to see it.

now i will place the pump lower than the intake strainer, but how far below the water should the intake strainer be?

heres where i am thinking of putting it (sorry for the bad pic),



and this is a front shot of the 3 pillars so you get an idea.



i am thinking of putting it behind the taller pillar, or maybe right in-between the 2 taller pillars, but towards the back of the wall.

anyway do you guys think it will work? i will basically have the "hook" come over the back of the tank (leaving an intake place to prime the pump) and then have 2 outlets towards the front of the tank, one on each side.

do you guys think a "hook" will work for this? the pump will be about a good 1.5 feet below the intake strainer.

the best part is that you wont be able to see this strainer later on and i can still access it for cleaning.

what do you think?

worth a try? i think it should work, but am not 100% sure.

thanks again.

Nick

P.S. i would like to place this about 7.5" below the water surface so the fish still have room to swim under the intake strainer and the bottom of the tank. i think that should submerge the intake enough so it doesnt vortex.

[OUinLA]

Sure it will work just fine. Where will the output be?

[o2manyfish]

I would think that with 4 darts, you need to look at reworking your flow rather than adding to it.

Dave B

[nbd13]

Thanks Madison, the outputs will be int he front corners, i will use that ocean motion 1" stuff that i used on my 2 returns.

heres a pic so you can see. i will put one in the front left corner, above that purple humilis, and it will point to the right to get some flow infront of that mini-reef and the other will be somewhere on the right (still thinking) and point to the back right wall where my stag island is.



heres a side view,



i am thinking of putting it to the right of that LJ purple tip and have it pointing towards my stag island. and to get some flow to that back wall area.

Dave- i have messed with it for so long, i gave up. i am happy with it right now, but i just want more, haha. its not that bad, i mean i have water movement all over, i just cant get any infront of that mini-reef (the thing in the front right of my tank if you are looking at it.) i have great flow around the sides, back, and under it. just not infront. and behind my stag island i coudl use some flow also.

i figure this would be an easy fix. and i can keep powerheads out of the tank, which is what i want.

Tha MAIN thing is can i have this about 5" below the water surface and still be fine? as you can see in the link in the first post the holes dont start till about 2" down the strainer. so i figure if i submerge the strainer about 6-7" it will be about 5" under the water before it starts sucking anything.

what do you think? or should i submerge it more?

thanks.

Nick

[OUinLA]

You can always add length to the intake pipe, so start with where you want it and go from there.

I was going to PM you about the same thing Dave brought up. I don't know exactly how you have done all your closed loops but an oceans motions might be an option for you. I know we talked about this before. It will save on energy and heat and provide a constantly changing flow pattern.

[Travis]

Nick, I'm gonna have to agree with Dave and Madison on this one. You really shouldn't need more than 4 Darts on that tank. It isn't how much flow you have, it is what you do with it. How about throwing an OM 4-way on one of those Darts? Put one outlet in the bracing in each top corner of the tank. Put a 45 el on each outlet and aim it where you need the flow.

But... if you still think you need another Dart I think your hook will work just fine. Just make sure to have the intake lower than the water will ever go when doing water changes. Otherwise, you will be repriming after each water change. Actually, I would drain the tank down a bit and drill a bulkhead for the intake. You have done such a good job at hiding everything so far, don't get lazy and throw a hook on your tank that is going to stick out. Keep everything nice and "clean" like you have done so far.

[nbd13]

i am scared that if i dont drain the whole tank that i will crack it when i am drilling it.

its 3/4" acrylic and i am not sure i could even drill it and feel comfortable.

i will look into that ocean motion also.

how far do you think i would need to drain the tank? and still be safe? i really dont want to chance cracking the tank.

i was thinking i could hide eveything pretty good. the PVC could barely be visible and the intake strainer you wouldnt see at all i dont think. if you did it would be covered by corals in 8-12 months.

plus i hear drilling acrylic makes a mess, i am afraid that if i dont drain the whole tank i will end up with stuff all in the water. you know from the acrylic.

what do you think?

thanks

Nick

P.S. maybe a ocean motion 4-way woudl do the trick?

[Travis]

I would say there is no way you are going to crack 3/4" acrylic just by drilling a bulkhead but then I would jinx you and it would actually happen so I'm not going to do that. I've drilled a lot of holes in my tank. They were all through 1" but that really isn't too much different than 3/4". I even drilled a 4" hole for a 3" bulkhead with the tank half full and wasn't worried the least about any cracking. If you've ever drilled a bulkhead hole through acrylic before, you don't have anything to worry about. You just need to drain the tank a couple inches below where the bottom of the hole will be. Have your girlfriend hold a towel around that hole so none of shavings will get in your tank.

[nbd13]

ok it seems more possible now.

maybe i can do that. i will have to figure it out.

the rock being out of the water for 30 minutes wont matter will it?

i will have to convince her to hold the towel, haha.

thanks again guys!

Nick

[o2manyfish]

The water actually will help prevent cracking cause it's absorbing the vibration from the drilling.

Cracking acrylic while drilling usually occurs when someone uses a dull holesaw, or lets the acrylic get to hot while cutting and it grabs the bit - melting to it, and then someone tries the break the bit free.

Fortunately acrylic shavings are inert, and are not dangerous to the tank, about the only thing they can do is get caught in your pumps. So using a fish net should catch the shavings - There won't be that many on the inside either.

Because the panels have been under pressure they may not be fully flat/straight. So one the pilot bit cuts all the way through the panel you are drilling. Move the drill inside the tank and cut back towards the outside using the pilot as a guide.

This will prevent from the bit from 'Breaking out' at he very end of the drilling.


These are directions for someone drilling acrylic.

I still think that with 4 dart pumps already, you need to review your plumbing methods before adding more. Do you have a photo of all the plumbing in the tank before you put in your rock work ?

Dave B

[nbd13]

Thanks Dave, good info.

let me see if i can find a pic, i cant remeber if i took one or not. if i didnt i will draw something up.

quick question for you about drilling though.

so bascially get a new hole saw, stick a drill bit in there and drill the pilot hole (drill bit) until it reaches through the acrylic. now i should go from the inside of the tank right, and drill from the inside out?

what happens if i dont do it this way? and just drill all the way through from the back? i know you said something about the bit "breaking out" but i am not exactly sure what you mean by that.

also since you mentioned about the acrylic not being completely flat, how will the bulkhead work? i mean if its not flat, will it still get a good seal? as i do not have time to throw a bead of slicone around it since i need to fill the tank back up.

anyway thanks again Dave.

Nick

[Travis]

Nick, you will want to drill from outside to inside. I don't think you need to worry about the hole saw breaking out. I think that is mostly caused from not keeping your drill square with the material that is being drilled and also applying too much pressure and not letting the hole saw do the work. FWIW, I've never had a break out when drilling 1/2" or thicker. I have had it with thinner materials, however.

[nbd13]

whats a break out?

i am drilling my sump and its ONLY 3/8".

should i worry about that? anything speical i should do for that? i was going to drill from the outside to the inside for a 1.5" bulkhead, so about a 2 5/8" hole.

thanks

Nick

[nbd13]

forgot to say i will be draining that section of the sump ONLY and then drilling it. should i worry?

thanks

Nick

[o2manyfish]

Nick,

The hole saw is going to have the drill bit down the center of it - That's the drill bit I am referring to.


By cutting the surface from the inside of the tank out (before cutting all the way through) this means that the last little bit of the hole saw cut is not on the surface of the acrylic.

When cutting through something you are pushing the acrylic away from the hole saw (by applying pressure so the bit cuts). As the acrylic left to cut gets thinner and thinner you can break through at the end rather than smoothly cutting -- hence the break out.

When working with thicker materials these 'break outs' can be pretty good sized chips. And since the breakouts are on the surface of the material, if large enough they can compromise the ability to seal a bulkhead.


As for the flatness for the bulkhead, when you tighten the bulkhead the gasket will be able to adjuct for most acrylic convexes. But when drilling the difference in distance across the size of the hole being drilled can be enough to effect how the drill bites.


But put away the hole saw till you can show me the existing plumbing

Dave B